Unsure about this turn play

Rake_in · #1 06-21-2005, 04:23 PM

These players were all unknowns.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP2 folds, Hero.. .

Do I raise or call here? Raising will charge spade draws the most, and I can easily fold to a 3bet knowning that I must be beat.

Chuckles1248 · #2 06-21-2005, 04:28 PM

I like a raise, but I don't think I can fold to a 3-bet. If you raise, SB bails, and UTG 3-bets, you're getting immediate odds of 9.5 to one with top pair weak kicker and a gutshot. The gutshot needs 11 to 1, but combined with the chance that UTG is betting a medium pocket pair or something like K5, I think I probably want to take this to showdown.

mosta · #3 06-21-2005, 04:33 PM

raise is too likely to fold him. maybe he sticks with his low pair, but the one card most likely to get him to fold is the ace. go for the overcall, and maybe you improve too.

ihardlyknowher · #4 06-21-2005, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
These players were all unknowns.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP2 folds, Hero.. .

Do I raise or call here? Raising will charge spade draws the most, and I can easily fold to a 3bet knowning that I must be beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would call because my kicker sux and I could be drawing very thin if someone has a 4.

mosta · #5 06-21-2005, 05:12 PM

forgot to finish stating perhaps the obvious: too much that calls the raise beats you, like better aces.

einbert · #6 06-21-2005, 05:14 PM

Strongly consider raising the flop.

mosta · #7 06-21-2005, 06:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like a raise, but I don't think I can fold to a 3-bet. If you raise, SB bails, and UTG 3-bets, you're getting immediate odds of 9.5 to one with top pair weak kicker and a gutshot. The gutshot needs 11 to 1, but combined with the chance that UTG is betting a medium pocket pair or something like K5, I think I probably want to take this to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

you fold the river if you don't improve? or do you go 4 big bets post flop with aces+a 6? or wouldn't you rather just call that turn but?

Borno · #8 06-21-2005, 06:10 PM

raise flop, then see what he does on the turn...

if he still bets, call. If he checks, check behind to induce a bluff

Chuckles1248 · #9 06-21-2005, 06:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like a raise, but I don't think I can fold to a 3-bet. If you raise, SB bails, and UTG 3-bets, you're getting immediate odds of 9.5 to one with top pair weak kicker and a gutshot. The gutshot needs 11 to 1, but combined with the chance that UTG is betting a medium pocket pair or something like K5, I think I probably want to take this to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

you fold the river if you don't improve? or do you go 4 big bets post flop with aces+a 6? or wouldn't you rather just call that turn but?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point, I think I was thinking a bit to LAGgy earlier, even right after my post I realized that raising costs way too much if we're behind. Now I think I call and call a river bet or bet if checked to.

Rake_in · #10 06-21-2005, 10:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise flop, then see what he does on the turn...

if he still bets, call. If he checks, check behind to induce a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like checking behind on the turn because I'm giving a free card to anyone on the flush draw. The reasons for not raising the turn make sense to me - they outweigh the reasons for raising, and having to call a 3bet on the turn but folding the river unimproved would be a killer.