3/6 hand

JoshuaMayes · #1 06-17-2005, 09:03 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Omaha/8 (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Does anyone play this differently?

L0QTiS · #2 06-17-2005, 12:48 PM

I hate these hands with a passion. I posted something similar here last year and I think the general consensus was to play it hard - however the flop in my example was rainbow.

I'm about 50/50 on check/fold or check/call given the flush and low draws. You may have to dodge a LOT of cards for your hand to hold up.

Let me pitch another question here for the masses. Is a bet on the river any better than a check/call (assuming you can lay down your hand to a raise). Against a weak field, I like a check/call as many inexperienced players will bet the river with trips or kings/aces up.

Wintermute · #3 06-17-2005, 01:44 PM

JM, this is exactly why I hate limit O8 (limit anything, really). In PLO8, you stand a chance at pricing people out of their draws (I assume nobody had a two-way monster since you didn't get reraised on the flop). Especially on the turn.
As it played out, I think I dump it on the river, unless the guy is a real idiot.

gergery · #4 06-17-2005, 04:21 PM

Yes, I hate the flop bet. I’d check with intention of hoping I get a lucky turn card so I can raise others out. I would consider folding on the flop in a big field, and would definitely do so to a bet and raise.

Some will look at this flop and say, “oh, cool, I have the nut straight”. Others will say, “Unless everyone folds, I must dodge all the following cards on both the turn and the river just to win high: clubs, J,T,9,8,6, runner hearts AND I might be splitting right now anyway. And I have to dodge A,2,3,4,5,7 to avoid splitting for low.” The very important question on the flop is, “How good is my hand likely to be at showdown?” How good your hand is now really is irrelevant.

You got one of the better turn cards you could – only the Kd, Ks, Qd, Qs would be better -- and you are still vulnerable to hearts, clubs, better straights, boats, and lows. That is a ton of cards. Notice that if you had not raised the flop, you might now have been able to raise SB on the turn and give heart/club/low draws bad odds.

River: Clear check then probably call. UTG+2 could have had a low draw, club or heart draw, or boat draw or some combination. If you bet, he’ll fold all of those but raise the boat, or worse, bluff-raise you with air. If you check, maybe he bluffs with one of those figuring you for a busted low/club draw and you snap it off.

--Greg

Buzz · #5 06-17-2005, 07:33 PM

Joshua - Flopped ten high straights are notorious for not standing up, and when they do it's usually only for half the pot.

You avoid playing hands that will tend to make middle straights, but of course when you're in the unraised big blind, it will occasionally happen.

What do you do when you do flop a middle straight with no chance at low? I think it depends on a couple of factors. (1) Is there a flush draw? If so, tend to check and fold. (2) How tenacious are your opponents? If they tend to play even though a straight is already possible, and even though you are betting as though you have flopped the nut straight, then check and fold.

Otherwise, tend to play rainbow flops fast when you have opponents who play tightly after the flop.

Here there is also a flush draw. Therefore, without even knowing more about your opponents, I think you should check and fold. Maybe a miracle will happen, no one will bet, and you'll end up winning something. Prepare for the miracle by checking.

Buzz

JoshuaMayes · #6 06-20-2005, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the feedback. I seriously debated folding this hand on the flop, and decided that if I was going to play it I had to raise. In retrospect, I think folding would have been better, because there were too many cards that I needed to dodge in order to scoop.
UTG+2 had 89 with no low or flush draw and took down the pot (happily reinforcing his incredibly horrible play).

dtbog · #7 06-20-2005, 05:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
JM, this is exactly why I hate limit O8 (limit anything, really). In PLO8, you stand a chance at pricing people out of their draws (I assume nobody had a two-way monster since you didn't get reraised on the flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

How would you all have played this hand if this were in fact PLO/8... a good draw is still going to call a pot-sized bet here, right?

Would most still check/fold the flop here?

-dB