help with 109s...do I raise?

HollywoodDB · #1 06-20-2005, 02:30 PM

No reads. Haven't been here to long, no one stands out.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $0.5.
2 folds, UTG+2 (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls

Flop: (12.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, CO folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls.

Should I have raised the flop?

Turn: (9.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero...?

I don't know if I should raise or call the turn.

Fantam · #2 06-20-2005, 03:06 PM

Hmmm. I think that you should have raised the turn.

I suspect that MP3 has a big pocket pair and that MP2 might be on a straight draw. You have a good chance that your hand is best on the turn, but if so it is still vulnerable with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on board.

So I think that I would 3-bet the turn to try to fold out MP2, to leave me HU with MP3.

handsome · #3 06-20-2005, 03:12 PM

Your title made me think you need help with $100+9 SNG's.. for future reference a ten is indicated by a T, i.e. T9s. Anyway, I would call on the turn and try to get MP2 to overcall. Then I raise a good river card (non-spade or 7/9/T/Q) but against some opponents or with a specific read I'm just gonna call down.

ajrenni · #4 06-20-2005, 04:12 PM

My first thought was to raise the turn to protect your hand, but now that I think about what MP2 might have, I think a call is better.

If he has a spade, a 9, or KQ, he isn't going to fold to your raise.

If he has any other queen and no spade draw, you would rather keep him around. A 9 fills your boat while giving him a straight, and a Queen gives you a straight, while giving him 2-pair at best (unless he has QT). Ideally he would "get lucky" and give you some action, and with MP3 trapped between you and him, you could make a killing on the river.

_bustedflush_ · #5 06-20-2005, 04:20 PM

I would raise the turn and bet out a non spade on the river. Having said that, I would have folded rather than cold-callled preflop- -UTG+2 and BB were not givens to call.

@bsolute_luck · #6 06-20-2005, 04:36 PM

this is a great hand.

i'm wondering if we should call the flop. i'll need help with the math. i know we're getting ~8:1 on our call. but i think we have ~2.5 outs and i think that may be generous. our 9s put 4 to a straight, 1 of our Ts put 3 flush, and our BDSD might not be worth a full 1.5 outs.

on the turn: i think i'd just call down. pot is big, but we don't know if we're ahead but we have a strong hand for a showdown. let MP2 contribute for us and go to the showdown. plus we have position if MP3 doesn't have a flush and checks the river for fear of it.

SoftcoreRevolt · #7 06-20-2005, 04:45 PM

We have an Open Ended Straight Draw, not a Back Door Straight Draw.

HollywoodDB · #8 06-20-2005, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and our BDSD might not be worth a full 1.5 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are open ended...

aK13 · #9 06-20-2005, 05:01 PM

Raise that turn for value.

keikiwai · #10 06-20-2005, 05:10 PM

So if you know he has a spade, and you know he won't fold for a bet, why do you not raise the turn?

It's more reason to raise the turn. It's a value bet; you've likely got the best hand, you won't make a flush draw fold, but you can make them pay, and when they pay, it gets deposited into your account the over 75% of the time that a spade doesn't fall (assuming you pick up the pot if no spade falls, which is not necessarily quite true)...