Am I a donk?

[axeshigh]

I've seen you a lot at the 33s. My notes on you go: 'multi-tables. seems like a typical 2+2er'. No mention of donkness.

[adanthar]

I don't think raising is necessarily wrong but it's high variance and I hate being OOP with it when the button coldcalls, so I limp and flop sets and stuff. It may be more wrong with 800 chips, or more right if the 33's have tightened up, whichever. If you are confident you can make the right continuation bets and check/fold at the right times I think it's fine or at least not a big deal.

PS: 3 bet push the flop. You don't want the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] checking behind when he misses the turn, and open pushing a blank turn is just a waste.

[tjh]

I too will defend the
"raise with small PP out of position" play.

I raise with small PP out of position if:
<ul type="square">[*]The raise is less than 1/10 of mine or my opponents stacks [*]My opponents are NOT maniacs [*]We are a few hands into the tourney and both I and my opponents seem to be paying attention [*]If it feels right... that's right. Flame away.[/list]
Post flop a number of things can happen. One out of eight I flop a set and that is hard to play incorrectly.

If I do not flop I set my preflop raise gives me some respect at the table and I can check-raise into someone who seems to be buying the pot. Or I can bet into a scary board and try to chase others off.

If you have the room to add a raise without hurting your stack it gives you many more options. I hesitate to bluff at a pot unless I was the preflop raiser so a raise is good. Limping only gives you set value and only really the option to trap. Often you flop your set after limping and bet only to have everyone fold. A raise allows you to bet wether you make your set or not.

--
tjh

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
I too will defend the
"raise with small PP out of position" play.

I raise with small PP out of position if:
<ul type="square">[*]The raise is less than 1/10 of mine or my opponents stacks [*]My opponents are NOT maniacs [*]We are a few hands into the tourney and both I and my opponents seem to be paying attention [*]If it feels right... that's right. Flame away.[/list]
Post flop a number of things can happen. One out of eight I flop a set and that is hard to play incorrectly.

If I do not flop I set my preflop raise gives me some respect at the table and I can check-raise into someone who seems to be buying the pot. Or I can bet into a scary board and try to chase others off.

If you have the room to add a raise without hurting your stack it gives you many more options. I hesitate to bluff at a pot unless I was the preflop raiser so a raise is good. Limping only gives you set value and only really the option to trap. Often you flop your set after limping and bet only to have everyone fold. A raise allows you to bet wether you make your set or not.

--
tjh

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of that sounds like it makes sense, but I have to think there are enough goofballs at these levels that you can take lots of chips limping into sets, and I have to think that, with the number of likely callers you'll get betting less than 1/10th of your stack, you'll lose so much by often having to check-fold those extra chips you put in preflop when overcards hit in multi-way pots, and so much by often having to fold on turns and rivers when your flop-checkraise aggression gets tested, that the chips you win by bluffing just isn't going to compensate. Now, I havve to ask that you please don't read my dumbass "aggression with JJ" post.

[hobbes9324]

If you ask if you're a donk, you're probably not - just the fact you're thinking about what you're doing disqualifies you.

Especially early in low limits, I limp in, and if I don't hit my set I'm gone. Just too many real donks calling and hitting an overpair. It may be that I don't have enough confidence in my ability to play after the flop if I miss. I just prefer to wait for an easier spot...one usually comes along.

[chisness]

I hate raising this especially with the low chip structure. I figure by limping you

(a) get away easy when you miss
(b) will likely get many more hands to see a flop and then get at least one of them to pay you off when you hit

I like how op played this and can't imagine folding it there.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
I am going to yield because I won't be able to convince you otherwise, and I am sure you will recieve more support then I will.

I have been in a atrocious mood today, and I think I am trying to pick a fight. To explain myself would take several paragraphs and I believe the post would be - EV in the long run for myself.

In short

I am the donk!

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, well I certainly wasn't saying you were a donk or that raising was a horrible play. Just saying that I didn't think it's the best play. If you have several paragraphs worth of explanation, I'd actually love to hear it. It never hurts to gain some new insight on a common situation, even if you don't necessarily agree with it.

If you're worried about the post being -EV for you, I sincerely doubt it will cost you any money in the long run. Anyone that would actually take this knowledge and use it against you already knows you may or may not be raising w/ a PP early... I (and probably others) would just like to know why. I'm pretty sure this entire forum is -EV for most of the posters to some extent anyway. But this is what it's for.

Anyway, if you feel like sharing please do. Hope tomorrow's a better day for you.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
PS: 3 bet push the flop. You don't want the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] checking behind when he misses the turn, and open pushing a blank turn is just a waste.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually thought about the same thing later last night. I also think this is the best line... just my $.02.

[Swinggcat]

In this situation, where a few players folded and a few called the big blind, and the action came back to you without any raise in the pot (what is rare in early levels)I would definitely push with a 3bb bet.

After the flop, when you have a set, but there also some strong flush possibilities for others players. (hopefully, some of then may have folded to your push pre-flop). I again push a 2/3 pot bet, to give someone's draw a hard time. Well, if someone has a complete flush already, you soon will know.
Well, you flopped a set, which is a great hand. Now suppose you're afraid of the flush draw, and checks. You probably will get raised here, as people frequently like to suggest they have a hand. And then you would be in tough situation. Don't get there with your set.

[hummusx]

I think your line is ok, but I would also push over the top when he raises the flop. I'm guessing he showed you 42. I hate that.