Losing Value

beta1607 · #1 06-19-2005, 10:40 PM

7 Card Stud High ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes

4th Street - (3.10 SB)

Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (2.55 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (6.55 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

River - (8.55 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

Total pot: (10.55 BB)

How much value did I lose not raising 6th? Does anybody else slow down there against an unknown after you have shown you werent afraid of there paired door?

mscags · #2 06-19-2005, 11:14 PM

I don't play a lot of high only and definitely not 10-20 but I definitely raise on sixth, if he reraises there I slow down, but I have to get in one more bet if he lets me.

Bartholow · #3 06-19-2005, 11:18 PM

It's possible he bet out because he filled, but it looks more like he thinks you aren't there yet and wants to prevent a free card. So I'd usually raise, although it is close because you open yourself up to a reraise. Easy raise if you can fold to a reraise vs this player, but I'm pretty much never that confident in my fold, so like I said, it's close IMHO.

BeerMoney · #4 06-19-2005, 11:25 PM

Raise 6th. Your opponents prolly not putting you on a 3 frush to start with.

Bet 7th if checked to, and cry if check raised.

djr · #5 06-20-2005, 12:01 AM

how about this. Since he has to act first, call 6th and raise 7th.

beta1607 · #6 06-20-2005, 12:06 AM

I like it - a lot actually. I am more likely to get paid off when I am ahead this way and lose the same or less when he is full.

Do you raise call or fold to a river 3-bet against an unknown? I am leaning towards calling but I can see the case for all 3 options.

djr · #7 06-20-2005, 01:09 AM

I call the river 3-bet, I'm not good enough to fold. But definately don't cap.

My thought on the hand is this.. He doesn't believe that you hit your flush on 5th. If he did and he hit a boat on sixth, he'd have check raised 6th since you're definately betting with a flush (it's not as if his board got any scarier). On the river, he can't make the assumption that you don't have the flush when you raise. The only thing he'll 3-bet is a flush-beater, but he'll probably call with two-pair/trips "just in case"). Of course this assumes he's a decent player who thinks.

Andy B · #8 06-20-2005, 01:46 AM

I would have to be very sure of my customer to fold to a river three-bet. The pot's just too big to give folding serious consideration against all but the most predictable players.

I think this is a clear raise on sixth. If I only called sixth because I hit the wrong button or was distracted by the cocktail waitress, I would raise seventh as well.

Canterbury has some very distracting cocktail waitresses.

Roland · #9 06-20-2005, 07:58 AM

How about this line: Call 5th and raise 6th? If you raise 5th and he catches another six, you’ll regret it. Granted, he might not bet again on 6th, but most players will.
Also, he might fold to a raise on 5th if he has just the queens and you don’t want him to.
On the other hand, raising 5th has the advantage that he might think you were semi-bluffing and/or trying for the free card, so you get one more bet (if he bets 6th and you raise). I guess it all depends on your opponent and, even more so, on what he thinks of you (if he’s actually thinking). You probably should mix it up a little.
More thoughts? I think it’s an interesting spot, because this kind of situation comes up fairly often.

On a different note, who likes/dislikes the completion on 3rd? (I’m never sure what to do with a flush draw in that spot).

Griff · #10 06-20-2005, 08:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On a different note, who likes/dislikes the completion on 3rd? (I’m never sure what to do with a flush draw in that spot).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the completion on third. I think it chased a lot of potential dead money out of the pot.