What would you do in this situation? (Mild collusion in a game)

PokerDork · #1 06-18-2005, 11:49 AM

So, last night I'm playing in a local "charity" game in which I regularly play in when I am visiting Cleveland, and this came up. Let me start this post by saying that, like those who play at the clubs in NY and other places, I realize that I get what I get coming to these places and that I don't real have any solid grounds to really lodge a complaint that will be listened to. Also, I realize that the sum of money involved is uber-trivial, but I feel that the principle is the same. Anyway it's a 5/10 game, and it folds to the button who limps in. I fold my sb with 94o, and the bb turns to the button and asks "Wanna chop?" Button says yes and then dealer tosses them each a $1 and moves on to the next hand. I immediately speak up and say that they cannot chop, because they basically waited for me to fold and split up my money, and implicit or explicit, that is collusion. The bb said its not cheating and he just didn't want to play HU (like he has a choice) and the button says he didn't want to play HU either (way to limp in on the button, champ.) The dealer then tells me it's a friendly game, I agreee, and say thats why he shouldn't allow players to cheat. The big blind then echoes his words and tells me "not to worry about it". I then say, "If the game is so friendly, give me my $1 back and we can move on." He of course refuses, because well, the game is friendly as long as he's profiting from all the friendliness. I walked out on the next orbit and plan on never going back. I know that the $2 wasn't really mine since I folded anyway, but I don't think the dealer should allow this kind of thing to happen, thoughts?

DesertCat · #2 06-18-2005, 12:28 PM

The problem isn't this particular (trivial) incident, but what happens if you get in a dispute over a large sum of money. It sounds as if you are an outsider in this game, and wouldn't get a fair shake in any dispute with a regular. I think you made the right move.

Felix_Nietsche · #3 06-18-2005, 12:51 PM

The smart way to of handle the situation was to shut your mouth and tell the dealer during a break what rule is. You said this was for charity and your accusing two poker novices of cheating. Keep the game friendly.

This is a case where your technically right but socially wrong. You were out-of-line.

***If***.......This was a serious game for money, THEN speak up but in this situation you should have kept your mouth shut.

PokerDork · #4 06-18-2005, 03:39 PM

this was a serious game for money. It was a $5/$10 game, and the reason I placed the word charity in quotation marks in the original post is because the laws here in Ohio make charitable gambling legal, and these casinos don't actually donate a dime, they just exist under the guise of being "charitable". The reason I lodged my complaint at the moment was because if the same thing had happened over a $100 pot, it would've been inexcusable. And I wanted to make the point. This game isn't really "Friendly" or else I could've gotten my dollar back.

Edit: Also, the two involved in this hand are hardly "novices" they know the rules, and took advantage of the lax enforcement. I'm sort of an outsider because I don't live in Cleveland anymore, but I know/remember these people, more so than they remember me.

DeuceKicker · #5 06-18-2005, 05:29 PM

IMO, you're being a dork about it. They are not cheating, they just don't want to play HU for a pot that will most likely show a loss even for the winner after the rake is taken. People try to do this all the time when there is only one person in with BB, regardless of their position.

While it's technically against the rules, and I don't like it, calling it cheating because they chopped up your dollar (which you then admit wasn't even yours after you posted) is lame.

You'd make much more money letting this go--or even just pointing out that it's against the rules, rather than trudging out some collusion accusation.

2+2 wannabe · #6 06-18-2005, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The problem isn't this particular (trivial) incident, but what happens if you get in a dispute over a large sum of money. It sounds as if you are an outsider in this game, and wouldn't get a fair shake in any dispute with a regular. I think you made the right move.

[/ QUOTE ]

tl65\ · #7 06-19-2005, 12:09 AM

I've played a little on the cleveland "charity" circuit before and i really think you're better off just not worrying about it. You aren't losing anything in the situation. Also, the competition is so soft at most of those games, it's not worth worrying about something that small.

silkyslim · #8 06-19-2005, 01:33 AM

best....avatar.....ever isnt that guy from ghost world or something

Diggslick · #9 06-19-2005, 03:34 AM

I will say that I too would feel a bit taken advantage of in that situation. If the button didn't want to play only heads up, he had an easy action. Exactly what sort of situation did he expect himself to be in by limping on the button?

Only you can decided if the advantages outweight the disadvantages. I posted to tell you that you werent nuts to feel that way.

PokerDork · #10 06-19-2005, 12:24 PM

In retrospect, I think you are right about this. The way it happened though, things kind of escalated. The first thing I said was to the dealer and to the effect of, "You shouldn't allow them to do that," and he refused to recognize why this was against the rules. Then they talked about not wanting to play heads up, when they don't have a choice. I wasn't that mad, but as I encountered increasing resistance I got more frustrated with the situation. But, both these players were bad enough that making a scene over my folded small blind was definitely -ev.