Eesh. River value bet.

Entity · #1 06-15-2005, 06:21 PM

I dunno if this one's tough or interesting or what.

UTG limps. He's got ok stats but I haven't played against him much. I haven't seen him showing down a lot of stuff. Probably a little too passive overall.

MP limps. He's a weird brand of LAG that's really tough to identify. Plays about 80% of his hands and plays most of them aggressively (flop agg 1, turn agg 1.1, river agg 1.8). Bluffs on scary boards and non-scary boards, capable of bluff-checkraises. He is not a maniac, but does a lot of calling and a fair amount of bluffing. He's the reason I'm in the game.

CO limps. Slightly LAG player, this is a fairly wide range here. PF stats aren't incredibly loose or incredibly passive.

I limp behind on the button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

SB completes. BB, a semi-lag preflop who slows down postflop (44/12) who I haven't seen much of postflop, now raises. Everyone calls. 6 to the flop for 12SB.

The flop is A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Checked to me. Hmm. Something seems a bit strange with this flop but I bet anyway. I'm thinking a check isn't bad here but a bet probably has some value against the field. SB folds. BB calls. UTG folds. MP calls. CO folds.

3 to the turn for 15SB.

The turn is the 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Again, checked to me. I bet my frush. BB calls. MP calls.

The river is the 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Checked to me again. I check.

What do/don't we like?

Rob

cockandbull · #2 06-15-2005, 06:28 PM

im not sure you wrote this out correctly. seems to be a bad deck [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

As to the hand i think i'd check here vs two players.

SomethingClever · #3 06-15-2005, 06:28 PM

I like the whole thing. I don't try to squeeze a river value bet here if MP is capable of the tomfoolery you listed.

cockandbull · #4 06-15-2005, 06:30 PM

did you change the post or am i seeing things? i thought i saw two 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]'s.

imported_wingman · #5 06-15-2005, 06:43 PM

I would fold preflop. If most of these guys are LAG i don't think you get the free/cheap cards you need.

Post flop looks good.

Entity · #6 06-15-2005, 06:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold preflop. If most of these guys are LAG i don't think you get the free/cheap cards you need.

Post flop looks good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think folding preflop when all these guys who are normally aggressive limp is probably a sizable mistake.

Rob

Fabian · #7 06-15-2005, 07:06 PM

I bet the river.

danng721 · #8 06-15-2005, 07:10 PM

BB probably has a mid to high PP, MP could have a weak ace. Bet it.

marand · #9 06-15-2005, 07:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would fold preflop. If most of these guys are LAG i don't think you get the free/cheap cards you need.

Post flop looks good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think folding preflop when all these guys who are normally aggressive limp is probably a sizable mistake.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I think calling preflop is a mistake with this crap. Maybe not a big mistake, but I think it's slightly -EV. If you knew that the BB is LAG preflop also then it's a very clear mistake. The rest of the hand is fine.

Entity · #10 06-15-2005, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would fold preflop. If most of these guys are LAG i don't think you get the free/cheap cards you need.

Post flop looks good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think folding preflop when all these guys who are normally aggressive limp is probably a sizable mistake.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I think calling preflop is a mistake with this crap. Maybe not a big mistake, but I think it's slightly -EV. If you knew that the BB is LAG preflop also then it's a very clear mistake. The rest of the hand is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

With 3 limpers who have below average hands, folding a hand like 97s is a pretty clear mistake -- I can't see how calling with 96s would be all that different. It's not a great hand by any stretch of the imagination, but if better players are saying that folding 75s with less limpers in this situation is an error, when we're getting better implied odds with a hand like 96s, I'm not clear how we dump it. BB is a mild lag, but that said, he's only raising about 12% of his hands, so I don't know that we're going to see a PFR from him -- especially in the BB -- often enough for it to make a huge impact on our profitability with this hand. The fact that everyone with the exception of MP is predictable postflop makes this an easier limp, FWIW.

It's far from a clear mistake, if it's a mistake at all.

Rob