Wild Game Question? (long)

[wildwood]

Let's say you have a wild game, where betting is capped on every round including pre-flop (I know a few live games that are very close to this senario), and the table is generally loose and two to four players are very aggressive. Usually five to six players see the river card every hand. I know from Sklansky that suited cards go way up in value, and dominated offsuit hands become junk that you don't want to take off even one card with. I have a couple of questions here: What is the worst hand (worst PP, worst offsuit hand, and worst suited hand) you would see the flop with if you knew you had to pay a cap multiway? And what's the worst hand you continue to the river? If you have a small PP, would you chase a two outer to the river with 5 or 6 capping each round? I'm thinking starting hands here are any PP, any suited ace, AK offsuit, after that I'm not sure about Kx suited, and other suited broadways. This seems like big bet poker where you pay one big bet each round equal to 5x the small bet. The live games I speak of, the betting does not double on the turn and river because of state law limiting the bet size. I played in this type of game once for ten hours, and there were many huge pots over 100 bets. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[bobman0330]

Suited cards are not very valuable in this situation. They are good in multiway pots in general, but the problem is you have to pay so many bets to see a flop. This decreased the implied odds that a hand like QJs needs to be playable.

It's easy to see all the action and make the mistake of thinking that you can recoup your preflop expenditures in postflop action. You make this mistake when you compare it to big bet poker. This notion could not be less true. The lack of a double bet on the turn and river makes the situation even worse. What the situation is really like is where there is a single fixed amount bet on every street equal to the cap. (Compare playing a hand like 87s in holdem for one bet PF, then raising someone on the river when you hit your hand... there you win 4x your initial investment on that street alone.)

Playing suited Ks and suited broadways is certainly wrong. Playing any suited ace is also wrong. Again, having to pay the cap preflop just destroys your implied odds. What you want are hands that have good hot and cold equity against several opponents. Basically, AKs and AA-QQ. Small pairs are ok, but must hit a set, and even if you hit a set, it's very likely you will still lose. Furthermore, your inability to make opponents pay more than they made you pay PF is bad.

This is Sklansky's advice from HE4AP.

If some evil djinn gets you involved with a weak hand postflop, correct play is actually very simple. You know what's in the pot, and you know approximately what the final pot will be and how much it will cost you to get there. Just work out the odds of hitting your hand to what you'll have to invest to see the river. In a 5-way pot on the flop (assuming a 4-bet cap), there's 20 SBs in the pot, you can anticipate 16 going in on every street, for a total of 68 bets. you will have to pay 16 bets to get there, giving you 4.25-1 odds. This is, I think, 5-6+ outs. but since there are no 5 or 6 card draws that you should draw to in a multiway pot, you need an OESD or better to continue.

[autobet]

When the betting does not double you are getting less implied odds on your drawing hands. Big suited cards and big pairs go up in value. Small pairs and small suited connectors go down in value.

In these kind of wild games I like playing any two large suited cards and of course big and medium pairs.

If you play somewhat tight before the flop, and play well on the flop you cannot lose in the long run. You just need to handle the swings.

These are the easiest games to beat as your opps are making the worst kinds of mistakes (Raising/calling when they should be folding on multiple rounds). They can also be the most boring as patience and discipline are rewarded, while the skills that make poker interesting like reading hands and bluffing are almost useless.