Play A Hand With Me UB 5/10 NL

[punter11235]

Forgive me this lame question but how this can be valid ?
If you raise your opponent know what you have (at least he knows the range of hands better) when you limp and he raised he doesnt know anything.
"having to deal with steal attempts" cant be any problem because all poker playign is about dealing with diffrent attempts of our opponents.
In my opinion situation is simple : when you raise UTG you make a trade : 1)more money into the pot but 2)more information for your opponents.
When you limp and they raise you have 1) and you dont worry about 2). This situation is a lot better isnt it ?

Best wishes

[soah]

Whether there are three people or five people in the hand makes a huge difference.

[xorbie]

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Whether there are three people or five people in the hand makes a huge difference.

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I agree. When I made my post, I was under the understanding that 5 people saw a flop in which the BB raised 5 limpers. Now unless he is very agressive and trying to pick up a lot of pots preflop, I think folding this flop is still right. You are significantly behind his range. Also, I think if he is agressively trying to pick up the pot PF and you are ahead of his range, I don't think the limp raise is bad and is probably pretty good in this situation.

[BluffTHIS!]

There are a lot of valid reasons to limp with this hand preflop, the principle one being that when you mostly don't flop a set you don't feel it necessary to make a continuation bet into other players who might have flopped a better hand or smoothcalled you with QQ or even AA/KK. In the actual hand itself, I would either fold or reraise to 400 and fold to a reraise, or if called check behind on the turn no matter what hit if I didn't spike my set. Just calling to the river if the board stays raggedy is usually going to be horrible unless against a LAG who will always continue to push AK and no pair in front like that.

[Snag]

This is painful. JJ is one of the top 5 strongest hands in Hold'em. Why you're arguing for not raising it UTG is blowing my mind. But, but - what if this, but, but what if that. If you don't raise, you know nothing about the field that you're up against. Limping here is like playing JJ the same way you'd play 22. JJ is waaaaay ahead of too many hands to play it this painfully weakly. If you flop an over out of position - you continue to bet - if you get called or raise - dump it. Information, information, information - don't give your money away by weakly playing strong hands.

[chumdawg]

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if youre not calling off youre other 800, then i hate the raise... why dont you just do this with 23o?

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Because limping with 23o from UTG+1, then calling a raise with three more people left to act, and then raising the flop...is generally going to lose you a lot of money?

[RollaJ]

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Limping here is like playing JJ the same way you'd play 22.

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Exactly, read SuperSystem its a hell of a book, IMHO. It explains, and basically supports treating JJ like 22.


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How so?

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When I asked how opening for a raise would avoid this confusion, I dont think it was a a stupid question. Sure that would very likely prevent the PF raiser from "stealing" with 89s, but many hands he raised with, he would still raise with, and if he were the only player left to act he could disguise himself in a heads up situation by just calling with AA/KK.



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How much of this hand is entirely fabricated?

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I really do apologize for that, everyone on this forum loves the converters, though I do fine reading HHs. That being said, I took the HH out of PokerTracker and converted it at Bisons. I guess the PT format isnt exactly the same as when UB sends it over. The part where I manually typed "PF raiser" was because it was coming up with screwey numbers instead of a name for the player. And I really just looked at the action and saw all the important stuff was there, didnt pay close attention to the rest. Basically, none of the hand was fabricated, just ran into some glitches while converting it. (If you want the HH# you can have it) [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


BTW, I also agree that I play this differentlt PostFlop if there were 5 to the flop, as I said the converter didnt work right, and I didnt catch the errors, there were in fact 3 total to the flop.

[Ulysses]

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Exactly, read SuperSystem its a hell of a book, IMHO. It explains, and basically supports treating JJ like 22.


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That's one way to do it. I make more money treating JJ like JJ, though.

Re: my earlier question (what would he do w/ unimproved AK on the turn), one of the things I like to get a quick pulse on is what kind of players I'm up against. Even at a new table, you can usually figure out pretty quickly how many barrels certain players will fire with certain types of hands. That will make these types of hands much easier to play.

[jumister5889]

I'd reraise him to 365 and see what happens. I think he has Acerag [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and is on the flush draw. Maybe its even a continuation bet but i dont think he has necessarily TT+. He is a PF raiser so he doesnt always have things like TT+. The most likely hand he has now if he is a PF raiser is Ax (x being a rag) or Ax [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Either he hit his X on that board or hes on flush draw. Reraise him and see waht happens from there

[RollaJ]

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Exactly, read SuperSystem its a hell of a book, IMHO. It explains, and basically supports treating JJ like 22.


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That's one way to do it. I make more money treating JJ like JJ, though.

Re: my earlier question (what would he do w/ unimproved AK on the turn), one of the things I like to get a quick pulse on is what kind of players I'm up against. Even at a new table, you can usually figure out pretty quickly how many barrels certain players will fire with certain types of hands. That will make these types of hands much easier to play.

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I apoologize for not responding earlier, as I really value your input. The reason I did not respond, is that I am somewhat new to 5-10 NL , and have played perhaps only 5-10,000 hands across 3 sites. That being said I did not have a good enough read on the guy to determine how he plays AK, or if he's usually a double-barrel kinda guy. If I did know that 80% of the time he would check a missed AK-Q on the turn, I would probably have just called. Unfortunately, I did not have a good enough read on his play though.

As for playing JJ like JJ, I think pf playing it like 22 is fine. After the flop, I certainly played it differently tho. Also, there are times I raise with JJ UTG, but Id guess 2/3rds of the time Ill limp, as I like to see what develops behind me. I also have no problem just check folding the flop if 5 people limp in, and the flop is not a favorable one...... do you think I should be raising more often UTG with hands like 99-JJ