K-weak; good fold or weak play?

tinhat · #1 06-14-2005, 12:37 AM

This is from a couple days ago so don't recall table conditions but I use gt+ and factor in ppl's vpip/pfr and play. So based on how I played this I'm reasonably certain that no one stood out for stupidity (excepting maybe me). Do others play this differently?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds, SB calls.

Tiny pot but couldn't see checking top pair so took a stab with 1 bet to pick up 4. But even if not everyone folded it didn't seem so bad leading into the two limpers. I thought it might be a situation of first bettor being folded to because of the tiny pot.

Turn: (3.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, SB calls, Hero folds.

An over, flush and str possibilities, overcalling with my crappy kicker and still a tiny pot. New bettor makes me think it's time to fold. There's nothing to improve to if utg+2's timely bet makes me think flush or straight. Even if he's betting a pair of aces I don't have odds to call to beat that.

Should this have been played differently?

I'm adding a couple questions after you decide if I played correctly because how the hand played out is what I'm most interested in.

questions in white:

I see this happen not frequently but enough that I'm confused - no one ever improved and I was ahead the whole way. So how do you better grasp whether or not your hand might be good? Did I give up too easily? Where does the tiny pot size figure in - at the top of my thinking; lower? Should I have any reason to think I'm ahead here and invest bets in a tiny pot? Or does the tiny pot make it not even worth thinking about unless I know I'm really strong?


Mike

NateDog · #2 06-14-2005, 12:53 AM

It seems lately I have been advocating a lot of check raises. Check/call an EP bettor and c/r the turn if a blank hits. Check/raise the flop if LP bets and lead the turn.

the_rookie · #3 06-14-2005, 01:06 AM

The thing about low limit players, is that they love playing cards with aces in them. (Ace and race) So this is a very likely spot that villian just paired his ace and is betting for value. Or maybe that SB caught an ace as well, but feared the flush. Either way, you have to believe you are looking to hit another K or 8, which I'll give as having two outs.

And even if you do hit one of your "outs" you wouldn't be able to extract anymore bets because of the fear of being re-raised. So, yeah after all that jabbering, this was a good fold.

Bodhi · #4 06-14-2005, 01:15 AM

Good fold on this board. What would you all advise if the board were rainbow?

the_rookie · #5 06-14-2005, 01:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Good fold on this board. What would you all advise if the board were rainbow?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the turn.

Bodhi · #6 06-14-2005, 01:25 AM

I think that's correct, but I'm not calling down if I'm raised (assuming a typical party table).

aK13 · #7 06-14-2005, 01:46 AM

Pot is tiny -- I have no problems with this fold.

I also agree that this is a pretty easy value bet if it were all rags. If raised, I think we should be calling down.

tinhat · #8 06-15-2005, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Good fold on this board. What would you all advise if the board were rainbow?

[/ QUOTE ]

I took a stab at answering my own post-review questions and I understand the problem - I can analyze this but not fast enough during play (using the rainbow flop version):

utg and mp I could give credit for a bigger kicker than mine. But mp folded and if I think utg is betting an ace, he didn't pfr so another K would help me. And I'd be a little suprised if someone normal limped JT from there and since sb didn't bet "his JT" I can probably ignore a straight. And sb didn't lead the flop so I'm guessing he doesn't have a K.

So if I had've looked at it that way originally I might've overlooked the str draw, tiny pot and overcalling thinking I had 5 outs to beat the suspected aces.

So,

1) Since 5 outs are too few to draw here, now what? If I think I need cards I can't call. If I didn't think I needed cards I wouldn't have checked.

2) Is experience the only way to get faster at analysis while playing or is there something else I need to work on too?

Thanks...

Mike

Duerig · #9 06-15-2005, 12:15 AM

I bet/fold this turn.