2 pair on the turn 40/80

[DcifrThs]

this hand is played against a very bad weak tight guy on the button, a bad limper and Angelina, a very winning player.

im in the bb w/ AJo. bad limper limps angelina raises button cold calls 2 and i call from the bb.

flop is AxKc5c i have the Ac. i check, limper checks angelina bets button calls i call planning to bet out the turn.

turn is Jx so no flush draw out there. i change my plan and go for a checkraise. i check to angelina who bets and now the weak tighty comes alive and raises. action?

-Barron

edit: title of post...

[italianstang]

Why would you check and call the flop here?

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you check and call the flop here?

[/ QUOTE ]

combination of things.

1) i dont want to lose a lot here when im behind. angelina is on the tighter side of winning players and i've never ever seen her get out of line. if i bet and she calls it could be because a) she has a hand like KQ, b) she's keeping the fish in w/ very few outs (which has me in trouble too) or c) because she plans to fold on the turn.

if she raises it still doesn't answer my question because she could have the set/2pair and trying to extract callsf rom teh button w/ a draw of somekind and get me to pay as well.

2) i disguise my hand vs. her and maybe get her to let me see a showdown cheaply.

a few other reasons i can't think of now but basically i dont want to pay too much or lose the button.

-Barron

[SayGN]

I think I'd lead out this flop. A Check raise might work well too because I think you are either way ahead or way behind on this hand and a 3-bet from any one of your opponents will give you all the information you need to know. However, the way you played this...you might have saved yourself 1/2BB because you should trust your read when a rock springs into action. There's alot of hands out there that he could have to beat you. I think you have to strongly consider dumping it, especially because Angelina might be coming over the top. I do not play stakes that high, but I think there are safer hands than this to make your money.

Out of curiosity, how did this hand play out?

[elindauer]

Let's talk hand ranges. Angelina... AA, KK, JJ, AK - AT. Some other hands like KQ are possible but basically weaker hands are probably not going to bet the turn after being called twice.

Now, the weak tight guy. AK - AJ, JJ. That seems like about it.

So... man, tough spot. I think folding doesn't seem ridiculous as you have two opponents that you may be way behind in a pot that is mediocre. On the other hand, your hand is very strong, so calling down also looks plausible. Finally, 3-betting seems rational as you want to knock Angelina off AQ, KQ, AT type hands those times you are ahead. Yikes. Good luck with that. How'd it turn out?

Eric

[DcifrThs]

yea i folded...

the weak tight guy had to have QTo imo to play here like that...so basically i but in 1.5bbs w/ AJo that turned 2 pair...the whole hand evolved so entirely differently than similar hands should, and included an interesting spot w/ the excellent player on your left w/ bad player on right...

do you see another way of taking this thing to a SD?

as it turned out, Angelina must have had a set, but weaky had QTo for the turned straight. so angelina bets weaky raises i fold, angelina 3bet, weaky caps (so clear he has QTo), river is a blanks and angelina bets and calls a raise (which i disagree with given this player's turn cap, i'd have check called.)

-Barron

[pokerhooker]

You already posted that you folded, and I agree with your fold, but I think a better line would have been to stick with your original plan to bet the turn.

This accomplishes a few things, it defines your opponents hands and gets money in if you're ahead.

If Angelina raises, it now forces the button to define his hand. If he 3-bets, its an easy muck. If he calls, between his probable flush/straight draw, and Angelina's show of strength (2 pair or set), I'd muck since I only count two outs at best.

If they both call, you've gotten a bet in and charged them to draw when they might have otherwise checked behind.

If Angelina called and the button raises, you still would figure to be behind, but at least you don't fear a re-raise by Angelina, which was the case in how the hand originally played out.

[elindauer]

I think your fold is fine. If he showed QT though, your description of him as "tight" (even "very bad weak tight") is off, given that he called 2 cold preflop. Probably loose passive would be more appropriate.

-Eric

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your fold is fine. If he showed QT though, your description of him as "tight" (even "very bad weak tight") is off, given that he called 2 cold preflop. Probably loose passive would be more appropriate.

-Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

yes that hand changed my view of him, but that session i saw him in VERY few hands and he almost never raised the turn/river

-Barron