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#11
06-13-2005, 09:59 AM
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Re: Max number of outs in hold\'em
[ QUOTE ]
My Hole Cards Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] My Opponent 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Flop : K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 15 outs for the straight flush 6 outs to pair 3 outs to pair the king Sorry for what is probably an obvious question, but can somone list for me the 15 outs for the straight flush??? 
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#12
06-13-2005, 11:21 AM
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Re: Max number of outs in hold\'em
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I was under the impression that 21 was the max number of outs in hold'em however I played a hand tonight that I was the favorite to win all the way until the river but never had the lead, until the river. On the turn I had 26outs versus my opponent. So is this the max? Oh it goes without saying that I was congratulated on sucking out on the river. I kind of giggled at that comment. [/ QUOTE ] In Omaha you can have 26. Board JhTh3c2c Player A KhQh9c8c Player B JdJsTdTs [/ QUOTE ] Just give your opponent a more retarded hand, like [4d 4s 6d 6s], and you got 30 outs here. I wouldn't think more is impossible, Omaha can get really retarded (quad deuces vs. wrap, double flush and a paired board). Ok, let me try. K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] vs. 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] gives you 32 outs and your opponent has 8. -pix [/ QUOTE ] Your omaha example gives your opponent 12 outs. 2 jacks, tens, sixes, fives, fours, threes will let your opponent scoop. I think the best you can half is if you have something like QJ87 and the board shows T965 with 2 flush draws. Your opponent now only has 8 cards to scoop (pairing the board if it doesn't make a flush) and 2 3's and 2 A's to get half. All together it'd be the equivalent of 10 outs, giving you 30 outs.
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#13
06-13-2005, 11:37 AM
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Re: Max number of outs in hold\'em
Sorry for what is probably an obvious question, but can somone list for me the 15 outs for the straight flush???
It's over counted at 15 because we know the other player has the 4d. There are 8 other cards that give you a flush A,9,8,7,6,5,3,2 of [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] There are 6 other cards that give you a straight A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] It also happens that 2 cards give you a straight-flush but those have already been counted.
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#14
06-13-2005, 12:49 PM
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Re: Max number of outs in hold\'em
What's an out?
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#16
06-13-2005, 02:55 PM
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Re: Max number of outs in hold\'em
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I was under the impression that 21 was the max number of outs in hold'em however I played a hand tonight that I was the favorite to win all the way until the river but never had the lead, until the river. On the turn I had 26outs versus my opponent. So is this the max? Oh it goes without saying that I was congratulated on sucking out on the river. I kind of giggled at that comment. [/ QUOTE ] In Omaha you can have 26. Board JhTh3c2c Player A KhQh9c8c Player B JdJsTdTs [/ QUOTE ] Just give your opponent a more retarded hand, like [4d 4s 6d 6s], and you got 30 outs here. I wouldn't think more is impossible, Omaha can get really retarded (quad deuces vs. wrap, double flush and a paired board). Ok, let me try. K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] vs. 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] gives you 32 outs and your opponent has 8. -pix [/ QUOTE ] Your omaha example gives your opponent 12 outs. 2 jacks, tens, sixes, fives, fours, threes will let your opponent scoop. I think the best you can half is if you have something like QJ87 and the board shows T965 with 2 flush draws. Your opponent now only has 8 cards to scoop (pairing the board if it doesn't make a flush) and 2 3's and 2 A's to get half. All together it'd be the equivalent of 10 outs, giving you 30 outs. [/ QUOTE ] In my case, tens and 6's are your outs. If a ten or 6 comes on the river, your opponent is playing the board and you have K kicker instead of one ten/six. -pix
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#18
06-13-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: Max number of outs in hold\'em
[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] That's too bad. Then 30 is probably the max.
So much for mixing Omaha into Hold'em outs thread. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] -pix
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#20
06-13-2005, 04:05 PM
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Re: Max number of outs in hold\'em
[ QUOTE ]
A card that if it comes will give you the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] My answer of 45 is still correct if thats the definition you use. personally thats the definition i prefer. If someone has a flush draw against me, and thats their only outs, then they have nine outs to beat me on the turn. As a result I have 36 outs to have the best hand on the turn because if any of those 36 nonspades hit then i will have the best hand. I think this is the right way to think about outs... particularly in omaha when drawing hands often have more outs than made hands, in which case you definitely consider blank cards an out if you are holding the made hand. I think in holdem a made hand should consider blanks an out for the same reason... its just semantics though i guess. if an out is a card that will change your hand from 2nd best to best then everyone else's numbers are correct.
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