Thought on what happened here....>

Drjekel · #1 06-13-2005, 11:57 AM

holding JT suited.

Flop a full house.

I just follow the betting until the river.

1st guy to act bet's - guy sitting next to me on my left - is grabbing for chips and says:

"I guess I have to call - I'm pot commited"

Now he's got his $6 stacked - but had not pushed it over the "line"....

and I declare "Raise"...

So he just picks up his card and discards them putting his 6 chips back in his stack.

I called bull sh#t on this - as do a couple other players on the table - I look to the dealer who doesn't do much and states that his chips were behind the line.

I didn't make a big deal about it any further - for sure I should have waited - but to me his actions and verbal intention were already made.

trevorwc · #2 06-13-2005, 12:17 PM

Why are you slowplaying a full house in a 3/6 game? You do realize that you will get paid off by almost everyone on a raise on the flop / turn, right?

As for him, no, his action is not binding - it's not his turn to act.

nut case ace · #3 06-13-2005, 12:21 PM

I think this one is a bit grey. While he did mention his intent to call, he could just as easily have been thinking outloud. Imagine Daniel Negreanu at a final table and someone goes all-in. Daniel does his thing and thinks outloud about his options. He says the same thing as your opponent: "I think I have to call," but just continues staring at his opponent. I think you'll agree that he has not verbally committed his chips to the pot. The only real difference between the two cases is that your opponent had chips in his hand, ready to call. However, because the chips did not cross the line, there is technically no difference between the two cases. IMO, you acted a bit too quickly and should have waited until the chips were past the line and out of his hand or until he said either "call" or "I call." I think you could have called the floor and made a case, but I think the ruling was correct. Sometimes I rush my raises too, but I've learned to make sure to act completely in turn these days. That's your best bet at avoiding such incidents.

nut case ace · #4 06-13-2005, 12:25 PM

Oops. I didn't realize the guy was to your left. I thought he was on your right. Given that he's on your left, even if his chips did go in the pot, he acted out of turn, and thus can take his chips out of the pot after you raised.

Al_Capone_Junior · #5 06-13-2005, 12:58 PM

You opened yourself up for an angle shot here. Don't even blink until the schmuck pushes those chips OVER the line.

al

Drjekel · #6 06-13-2005, 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you slowplaying a full house in a 3/6 game? You do realize that you will get paid off by almost everyone on a raise on the flop / turn, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct upto this point in time.

I'd been playing with a bunch of lossies for a few hours - but at this point there had been a rotation of players out of the table. A bunch of young guys came in - Sun Glasses, BB caps and IPOD's in tow - and the game had changed considerably. These guy's had been folding way to quickly at a show of strength.

When I flopped the full house - J 10 J - and one of the kid's bet it out on the flop - and 2 calls in front of me - I figured I just let him continue to bet it out - fake weakness - but call down anyway - then raise on the river - hoping someone perhaps had caught a flush or smaller full house.

Drjekel · #7 06-13-2005, 01:04 PM

I agree with you in retrospect - I should have waited until he threw his chips in. That was my bad.

That was one of the reasons I didn't make a really big deal about it - although other players at the table were unhappy with his play.

It was obvious to everyone he was calling - but didn't throw his chips pas the line. Lesson learnt on my part.

a couple fo hands later I did the same thing (this time with a straight) but waited until his chips were int he pot. I must admit I got some well needed satisfaction.

Drjekel · #8 06-13-2005, 01:06 PM

My bad - he was to my RIGHT not my LEFT.

I made a mistake when rightingt this post. He acted BEFORE me - not after me.

mrkilla · #9 06-13-2005, 01:13 PM

Al's right, wait for action to get to you before your action. You avoid this. That being said. if hes to your right, and says call and then goes to put in chips and you call raise. I would think his 6 is binding, they might let him slide on it if its a one time act though.

beetyjoose · #10 06-13-2005, 02:01 PM

Right or left, he wasn't obligated to call. Mainly because of the phrasing of what he said. "I guess I have to call" This is not a definitive "Call".

Al said it best. You got exposed by an angle shoot here. Next time try to hold your excitement in and you'll win a few more bucks.