QJos on button

zPro · #1 06-11-2005, 08:37 PM

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

PF: QJos is trouble for me. I only play it in LP.
Does anyone muck this from LP?

Flop: with the 3bet, I'm probably beat I want to see the next card.

Turn: I am getting 11.5 to 1 for my broadway gutshot, nice monochrome board.

River: I admit I felt beat. I called because the pot was big.

Entity · #2 06-11-2005, 08:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I called because the pot was big.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you call this river with 9-high because the pot was big?

Your river call is a 1BB error. Your flop raise isn't all that bad but I wouldn't do it without a read on UTG. Turn call is fine.

But seriously, dude, fold the river.

doubleplus · #3 06-11-2005, 09:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PF: QJos is trouble for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've lost more with QJo than any other hand, myself.

It was 11.5-1 when the turn bet got to you, so you called with your 11-1 odds, which would seem correct on the surface. But you'd evidently already made the decision that you were going to call a river bet if you missed the river (or you didn't consider the river at all), so that's two bets you're committing in instead of one, which puts you behind the odds. Plus, you're only using one card for the straight, which makes a split pot much more likely.

doubleplus · #4 06-11-2005, 09:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your river call is a 1BB error...

But seriously, dude, fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

That, too.

Shillx · #5 06-11-2005, 09:03 PM

Your river call is a 1BB error.

Yup. Dead on as always.

bholdr · #6 06-11-2005, 09:07 PM

in a 9 handed game at party 1/2, i probably fold pre-flop- thare are just too many hands that an UTG player might hold that dominate you, and if he doesn't have it, MP3 might as well.

as for the flop- you're probably badly beat as the UTG player bets out, i don't like the raise, even if you make two pair or a set you will likely lose or split the pot. you should really be folding to the three bet- that should tell you not only are you beaten, but you are beaten badly, maybe even drawing dead. this is the kind of situation where you stand to lose a lot of money if you make a hand and are beaten by, say, AJ or KJ- both hands that decent players will limp with from UTG.

the turn is even worse- did you consider that even if you hit the miricle straight you may end up splitting the pot? that possibility cuts down your odds signifigantly.

zPro · #7 06-11-2005, 09:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]

It was 11.5-1 when the turn bet got to you, so you called with your 11-1 odds, which would seem correct on the surface. But you'd evidently already made the decision that you were going to call a river bet if you missed the river (or you didn't consider the river at all), so that's two bets you're committing in instead of one, which puts you behind the odds. Plus, you're only using one card for the straight, which makes a split pot much more likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never thought of that.

Thanks for all the input guys.

New line - Fold to the flop 3bet.
He has at least TP.

Shillx · #8 06-11-2005, 09:32 PM

New line - Fold to the flop 3bet.

This would be awful. Don't even consider it.

Brad

moot · #9 06-11-2005, 09:49 PM

Yes, folding to a 3bet would be a very poor. And I'm not even considering your table image, it would simply be mathematically wrong. You're getting somewhere around 1 to 18 on your call and you probably have at least 3 outs. The backdoor straight is worth about 1.5 (especially since this flop doesn't have a 2toned suiting) and I think we can safely assign your 2pair and trip outs at least another 1.5 outs (perhaps a touch more).

Not even considering table image (which in online games I think some people but far too much weight on, anyway) and ONLY taking into account your pot/implied odds there's no possible way you can justify folding to a 3 bet.

deepsquat · #10 06-11-2005, 09:55 PM

I have alot of probs with these hands. What does the flop raise acheive? We are definately going to be drawing. If our Q hits someone may have a straight or a better 2 pair or we could be drawing dead.