Anyone find a fold here?

[QBert]

6/12 live. Game is loose-passive, Villain is one of the better players at the table (slightly loose preflop, straightforward postflop). MP3 is a complete LAG, always trying to but pots, straddling/capping blind, etc.

Hero is CO with Kd Qd. Villain and 4 other players limp. Hero raises. Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, all limpers call.

Flop (14.5 SB): Qh Js 9s. Villain bets, 3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB folds, Villain caps, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn (13 BB): 3c. Villain bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River (16 BB): 5d. Villain bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Results in white below:


<font color="white">Villain wins 19 BB with Tc 8c. MP3 shows Kh Qc. Hero shows Kd Qd. </font>

[DrewOnTilt]

I'm not folding this. You have TP and a gutshot, which you correctly chased. On the river, you are getting 16:1. Don't expect to win often but you should be good often enough.

[toss]

You couldn't fold the the flop. You couldn't fold the turn drawing to a straight getting 15:1 IMO. Pot is so big on the river its like a black hole beckoning you to call. I'm not a good neough player to lay this one down.

Also don't post results as it skews peoples' views.

[bozlax]

Nope.

[ QUOTE ]
Villain and 4 other players limp.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to modify your read from "slightly loose preflop" if he's limping T8s from EP. Maybe? Unless this game was a nutfest where no preflop raising was allowed?

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 is a complete LAG

[/ QUOTE ]

And you played his hand just like him [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

[QBert]

I posted results in white so they could be read after you reply. Is this incorrect? Do most people read them before a reply?

[toss]

Well they shouldn't but sometimes their curiousity gets the better of them.

[QBert]

Actually, MP3 was one of those players who liked to raise blind but he never raised preflop with legitimate hands. It was after the flop where he usually played aggressively (and when he was playing blind). He played his hand correctly except that he limped preflop instead of raising. I just wanted to give a read on him to explain why I did not fear his hand.

Regarding Villain, I think he was UTG+1. And the game was very loose passive. This means the only hands that were getting raised preflop were JJ-AA, AK and sometimes AQ (except for me but I was getting cold decked so I was rarely raising or even playing). So I think my read was correct. I was seeing a lot worse hands played from EP than T8s, and limping with this hand in EP is close to correct in a game as passive as this one was.

[QBert]

Very well I will not post results until after I get replies in future.

[sweetjazz]

I'd only fold if villain picked up his cards and clearly showed me the T and the 8. Even then, I'd wait until the river to fold.

The river is the only questionable street, and you'll find villain with QT, AJ, AT (possibly Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) often enough to make calling profitable. Or a very small mistake at worst. From your description, you were likely beating MP3.

[Jules22]

yeah, i play it the same way, call on the river expecting to muck