Should I lay it down?

Sherman12345 · #1 06-10-2005, 01:14 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 5 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

River: (10.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Kh Ks (two pair, kings and sixes).
UTG+2 doesn't show.
Hero has 8c 8h (two pair, eights and sixes).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 12.25 BB. 

What do you think?
Probably shouldve given it up on the flop 3-bet.

milesdyson · #2 06-10-2005, 01:33 PM

Read, please. Usually fold the turn. I often 3-bet preflop also (but I'm crazy). Nevermind, I would coldcall preflop with all those dudes behind.

imported_The Vibesman · #3 06-10-2005, 01:53 PM

With no reads I think I would have played it the same way. If utg+1 is betting unimproved overcards on the flop then he very well may call the raise and fold the turn. Raising also presents utg w/ two cold, which is good. I think the pre-flop raise/flop three-bet indicates a higher pocket pair than yours. I call down at Party .5/1 without reads, many many psychos.

Incidentally, I'm a little fuzzy on wa/wb, is this a case where utg-1 should be playing the line, or does the unlikelihood that someone is calling the pre-flop raise with a hand containing a 6 leave him free to assume he's ahead here?

guacamol · #4 06-10-2005, 01:54 PM

i think you played that hand ok up until you get re-raised by UTG+1 on the flop. raising UTG+1s bet on the flop was useful as it helped you to analyse what your opponent may be holding and in this situation in your postion i would have folded to the re-raise as it screams a high pocket pair especially from the preflop raise.

Fantam · #5 06-10-2005, 02:22 PM

Post results after discussion of the hand Sherman. That way you get unbiased thinking from posters that reply.

Firstly I wouldnt call the PF raise. I dont think your hand was strong enough and could easily be up against a bigger pocket pair. I think that was the biggest mistake you made in playing this hand.

I think you should have just called on the flop. That might have closed the action and it would only have cost you 1sb to see the turn. That would have been ok for an overpair and straight possiblity in a reasonable sized pot.

I think the turn possibly depends on how agressive you think UTG+1 is. He could be betting unimproved overcards like AK or AQ. A call is probably justified as you might still have the best hand.

I think on the river that you are beat. I doubt that UTG+1 would bet A high here. He probably does have a higher pair than you.

Nonetheless the pot is now big and so I think you had to call in case he was bluffing. Folding on the river in big pots for one bet is expensive, when you just might have the best hand.

Also it is very noticeable to other players and might encourage them to bluff at you in similar circumstances in later hands.

AmarilloJim1 · #6 06-10-2005, 02:28 PM

I would have played it the same.

Fantam · #7 06-10-2005, 02:36 PM

I dont think this is a case of WA/WB.

UTG+1 is most likely way ahead, but unlikely to be way behind. It is usually more likely that another player betting that flop has something like a 7 or smaller PP.

And the flop raise was not enough evidence to give credit for the 6 trips.

If the turn had been raised by OP, then that probably would have been enough reason for UTG+1 to call down.