KJ - calling when likely drawing dead

Rudi · #1 06-10-2005, 09:54 AM

No reads on any of these players except that UTG enters several pots but hasn't shown down much junk.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

River: (9.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

I decide to call down with two-pair on the chance that UTG has a 10. When the SB wakes up on the river, I figured he had made his gutshot and yet I still called because of the "Dont fold for one more bet in a large pot" mantra. I've been thinking about this hand all night and maybe I should have dumped it on the turn UI - not because of the River gutshot, but because UTG likely had a 10. I find it difficult to balance not folding for one bet in large pot and wanting to use the fit or fold play also when I suspect I'm behind. It's tought to make up that BB on the river when drawing dead. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Quercus · #2 06-10-2005, 10:00 AM

You need to raise that flop.

a) There are only 2 tens out there. That makes it unlikely that UTG has one.
b) There area lot of overcards that you do not want to see come up. Raising protects your weak made hand by encouraging the rest of the field to fold out.
c) You probably have the best hand here.

KeysrSoze · #3 06-10-2005, 10:08 AM

First off I'd raise the flop. Barring that, (if action and potsize wasnt right to protect my hand), Raise that turn when that 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], which looks like a safe card, comes, then go from there.

JordanIB · #4 06-10-2005, 10:11 AM

Would be nice to know UTG's aggression level...Does he bet draws?

I'd raise the flop. Based on his aggression, I'd raise or call the turn when the blank hits, if I'm bet into again.

[ QUOTE ]
No reads on any of these players except that UTG enters several pots but hasn't shown down much junk.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

River: (9.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

I decide to call down with two-pair on the chance that UTG has a 10. When the SB wakes up on the river, I figured he had made his gutshot and yet I still called because of the "Dont fold for one more bet in a large pot" mantra. I've been thinking about this hand all night and maybe I should have dumped it on the turn UI - not because of the River gutshot, but because UTG likely had a 10. I find it difficult to balance not folding for one bet in large pot and wanting to use the fit or fold play also when I suspect I'm behind. It's tought to make up that BB on the river when drawing dead. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Bodhi · #5 06-10-2005, 12:45 PM

You need to use the raise button on the flop or turn in this hand. I can tell by your tone that you lost, but if I were just seeing this hand without that knowledge I would definitely raise the flop or pop the turn.

Jaran · #6 06-10-2005, 02:30 PM

Raise the flop and then play poker.

-Jaran

Aaron W. · #7 06-10-2005, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No reads on any of these players except that UTG enters several pots but hasn't shown down much junk.

...

I decide to call down with two-pair on the chance that UTG has a 10... I've been thinking about this hand all night and maybe I should have dumped it on the turn UI - not because of the River gutshot, but because UTG likely had a 10.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't make a convincing argument that you're "likely" drawing dead (well, nearly dead) on the flop. In fact, you don't make much of an argument at all. A loose UTG who doesn't show down "much" junk comes out firing on a paired board. That's all the information you have to suggest that he has trips. I think that your guess was right this time (because otherwise you wouldn't have posted this post), but that doesn't mean that your play was right, nor does it mean that the logic you used to conclude he has a ten was right.

Fantam · #8 06-10-2005, 03:53 PM

I think the way for you to have played this hand was to raise on the flop.

That would have forced the blinds to call 2 bets cold and made it unprofitable for hands like gut-shots to call.

Then you may well have ended up playing this hand heads up against UTG.

He could easily have had a J with a weaker kicker than yours or a smaller pocket pair, as opposed to a T. So from this situation it probably would have been correct for you to call down.

Roybert · #9 06-10-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No reads on any of these players except that UTG enters several pots but hasn't shown down much junk.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

River: (9.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

I decide to call down with two-pair on the chance that UTG has a 10. When the SB wakes up on the river, I figured he had made his gutshot and yet I still called because of the "Dont fold for one more bet in a large pot" mantra. I've been thinking about this hand all night and maybe I should have dumped it on the turn UI - not because of the River gutshot, but because UTG likely had a 10. I find it difficult to balance not folding for one bet in large pot and wanting to use the fit or fold play also when I suspect I'm behind. It's tought to make up that BB on the river when drawing dead. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd raise pf, flop and turn.