#11
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Re: Thoughts on problem starters...
Rock...
Starting with AJo, this is what I think (especially since 99% of the time I get it is utg or utg+1)... "wow, this is my most hated hand....but, on the other hand, I'm so sick of seeing T3o, J5o, K2o, so this looks soooooo damn pretty..." Well, at this time, I think I've lost much more than I've won with AJo in early pos that I've forced myself to muck it. It's obviously a raise or muck in early position. But if you raise preflop (as I used to do), like you said, you'll be driving out weaker aces, but not aces that can beat you. What happens if you get 3-bet? How do you proceed when a lone K or Q falls on the flop? What if an A falls and you run into resistance when you bet? I think late position it's worth a raise against fewer opponents, but in a multiway pot, I think AJo loses a lot of its value ... |
#12
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Re: Thoughts on problem starters...
With each of these hands I always fold to a legitimate raise. If a LMP or LP player raises then I either reraise or fold depending on the open-raising standards of my opponent from that position. Here is what I do in unraised pots with each of these hands (along with my thoughts when I receive the hand):
1) AJo - "I used to think you were almost as good as AQo...now I know better." a) EP -- Limp unless the game is super tough, in which case fold b) MP -- If first in, open-raise -- If two or more limpers, limp -- If one limper, limp unless a raise stands a good chance of getting the hand heads-up c) LP -- If first in, open-raise -- If two or more limpers, usually limp. Raise if doing so will buy the button (if in CO) and/or opponents will automatically check to you on flop -- If one limper, raise if opponent is loose/weak, otherwise limp 2) ATo - "I used to think you were almost as good as AJo...now I know better." a) EP -- Always fold b) MP (this hand in this position causes me problems at times) -- If first in, limp if game is loose-passive, fold if game is loose-aggressive, raise if you have a chance to steal the blinds -- If two or more limpers, fold unless limpers are loose/weak -- If one limper, fold if limper is solid, limp if limper is loose/weak, raise if opponent is loose/weak and raising will often get it heads-up c) LP -- If first in, open-raise -- If two or more limpers, limp. Raise if doing so will buy the button (if in CO) and/or opponents will automatically check to you on flop. Conditions have to be just right for me to raise this after multiple limpers, whereas with AJo I will do so more liberally. -- If one limper, limp (or maybe even fold) if opponent is solid or if opponent is loose/weak but raising won't get it heads-up, raise if opponent is loose/weak and raising will get it heads-up and/or buy the button 3) KQo - "I like you. When I flop top-pair with you I'm typically not outkicked, and you are easy to get away from when the flop misses you." a) EP -- Limp unless the game is super tough, in which case fold b) MP/LP -- If first in, open-raise -- After any number of limpers, usually limp (I typically won't raise to isolate because I might be isolating Ax, giving my hand no chance to win unimproved) -- After one limper, raise if you can get it heads-up and your opponent is weak -- Homer |
#13
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Re: Thoughts on problem starters...
The only time I play ATo is when I'm openraising from LMP to steal the blinds. Do you think I'm giving up a lot (or a little) by not limping with it after one or two limpers?
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#14
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Re: Thoughts on problem starters...
I don't think you're giving up much by not playing it in MP, but I think there are definitely times when it is correct to play it in LP. This is especially true if you are in a game in which your opponents are of the "any ace" variety (i.e. - Party 2/4 and 3/6).
-- Homer |
#15
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Rock and nottom
When I get more time I'll try to divulge more...I've got this list of options at home that I wrote down once...it's huge however.
AQo - I’ll raise with it about 1/3 of the time. I just don't feel confident with it UTG, there is way to much action behind me and too many hands that dominate it that I could run into. The problem with these off-suit hands is that they are 'raise or fold' hands in my book. I rarely limp, and NEVER COLD-CALL with such a hand. Depending on the game type is what makes these hands toggle between raise and fold. In addition, I'm not afraid to 3-bet with such hands if the player raising deserves to be isolated (such as my 'Was I chastised for the right reason' post) even in MP if the open-raiser is loose-aggressive. I really couldn't sum up what I do with such hands in a short quick post since the play with them is so dynamic. My original post is more what I'd do in a tight online game. Thus, the ever-going debate of what to do with such hands. |
#16
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Re: Thoughts on problem starters...
I love your comments on each hand Homer, I think the same way I have only 2 discrepancies with your play and a question:
AJo, KQo a) EP -Limp unless the game is super tough, in which case fold I really think limping is asking for trouble here. I'd say I raise w/ it 20% of the time, other than that I fold. This 20% would be after I've shown down a few monster hands and was sure most of the field would fold to my raise. What's the advantage of limping with this in EP? I guess if you are in a game where 'limping is contagious' you could really stick an Axs if an Ace hits...but I think more often you'll be dominated by AK, AQ in LP or stuck to a Jxx board w/AA, KK, QQ are out there. |
#17
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Re: Rock and nottom
"AQo - I’ll raise with it about 1/3 of the time. I just don't feel confident with it UTG, there is way to much action behind me and too many hands that dominate it that I could run into."
The only hand that dominates AQ is AK, if anybody comes with other A or Q then YOU dominate them. Also, not sure what limits you're talking about, but the limits I play (up to 3/6 online) there are a good number of people willing to call with this dominated crap, and even 3-bet AJ,AT. I'm with nottom, if you can't play AQ UTG, time to find a softer game. |
#18
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Re: Thoughts on problem starters...
I've managed to struggle my way through these hands (650 times in online play, to be exact), showing a very modest profit. I just can't figure out how to play these very well.
The problem is with your expectations. These hands should only be showing a modest profit. |
#19
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UW,Rock! Just read your link n/m
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#20
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Re: Thoughts on problem starters...
If I'm in LP and there are a bunch of limpers to me, I'll muck AJ much of the time.
Why? its doesn't play well in a family pot. I have to catch the flop well to win the hand. Thats not easy with that hand in that spot. I'd call with AQ, raise with ATs-AKs. (in LP regardless of number of callers) -Scott |
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