Too much aggression with QQ?

Dave D · #1 06-09-2005, 07:30 PM

How's my line here, should I have slowed down on the turn?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (15.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (15.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (27.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 27.75 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 2h 3h (high card, ten).
UTG has Js Jh (one pair, jacks).
MP2 has 9d 9s (three of a kind, nines).
Hero has Qs Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: MP2 wins 27.75 BB. 

edit: No huge reads except the table's been pretty loose

DCWildcat · #2 06-09-2005, 07:35 PM

I'd call down starting on the turn. Can't see MP limping then springing in with anything you have beat.

toss · #3 06-09-2005, 08:17 PM

I start calling down after he bets out on the turn after you capped the flop. The river completes a flush draw and a few wacky gutshots with 2 who have been calling all these bets. I'd be gunshy about betting this river too.

UVaHoo · #4 06-09-2005, 08:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call down starting on the turn. Can't see MP limping then springing in with anything you have beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially seeing him lead the turn, you have to guess something like 99. Without the preflop cap, it's doubtful he's on KK or AA, and by the turn, the only possible hands I can see him playing this way that you have beat would be JJ or AK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

toss · #5 06-09-2005, 08:21 PM

Sometimes they'll get cute PF and just call the 3-bet with AA/KK.

cjhellm · #6 06-09-2005, 08:29 PM

If you raise, I fold this turn to the 3-bet.
I would just call down, though.

The best part about this hand is DEFINTELY
[ QUOTE ]

BB has 2h 3h (high card, ten).

[/ QUOTE ]
btw.

toss · #7 06-09-2005, 08:31 PM

Folding this turn is baaaad.

bema03 · #8 06-09-2005, 08:41 PM

When MP2 led out on the flop, I wouldn't necessarily put him on a set. I might think he has A9 and is trying to protect against the flush. But when he 3-bets the turn, you should know you're probably beat. A bet on the river when the third club comes up might have chased him away, although I doubt it.

cjhellm · #9 06-09-2005, 08:43 PM

You're right, the pot is pretty huge and folding is a bad move. But you're almost definitely behind and drawing to one (maybe 2) outs. The EV in calling seems very, very marginal.

Bill C · #10 06-09-2005, 08:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding this turn is baaaad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain why you think it's baaaad?

Here's my view: Villain's 3-bet on the turn says he's got QQ beat (in fact, I think his bet-out on the turn after the flop cap says that.) One of the two remaining Queens is a club, so not a clean out.

Granted, it's a huge pot. But how does Hero win it from here?

bill c