Is checking behind on this river too weak?

hobbsmann · #1 06-09-2005, 01:10 AM

CO is kind of LAGy through 65 hands (30/21 with agg of 8) and BB is extremely loose passive 78/7. After getting c/r on the turn I kind of felt like it was coming again on the river and given that BB could have anything I thought it was the safe play to check behind given the 4 card str8 on the board.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: FatChicksKT is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO raises, FatChicksKT 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, CO caps, FatChicksKT calls, BB calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO bets, FatChicksKT raises, BB calls, CO 3-bets, FatChicksKT caps, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, FatChicksKT bets, BB calls, CO raises, FatChicksKT calls, BB calls.

River: (18.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, FatChicksKT checks.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB
I'm mainly looking for feedback on the river check, but comments on all streets would be appriciated.

Dudd · #2 06-09-2005, 02:36 AM

I'd check behind as well. I'd play the flop the same, but once I got check raised on the turn, I'd have to think I was behind since a hand I can beat usually won't checkraise me after a cap. If the 6 was a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] instead of a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and the Q or J was instead the [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], then maybe you could get some value from someone playing something like AQ or AJ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the BB is a loose passive as you say, so a single Q or J can't be ruled out. My guess is that the T hitting the river scared the CO into thinking someone had a 9 for the straight, beating his QJ or 66 or something of that sort. You say he's LAGy, but even so, usually LAGs will slow down facing the kind of action you give on the flop unless they have a made hand. Even if he crosses the line to become a maniac, I think that there still is a decent chance that you are behind to at least one of them.

ep510 · #3 06-09-2005, 02:42 AM

I'd call the 3-bet on the flop and raise the turn to try to kick out BB with a gutshot or non-top-pair. I don't think CO will check-raise here considering you just called his turn raise. I'd bet this for value and fold to a reraise.

cmwck · #4 06-09-2005, 02:48 AM

If he's really this aggressive then I like the flop cap.
I assume from your read that he would be pumping the pot with a hand like AKs.

Not really too much you can do about the turn c/r. I'd call it down.

However, when the T hits on the river, TT just got there, so did AK, so I'll gladly check behind.

cjhellm · #5 06-09-2005, 02:53 AM

I like the capped flop against a LAG. However, I'm not sure what to make of the turn check-raise. My gut tells me that he made his flush on the turn, but then he checks the river again. I can't lay this hand down to the very possible river raise, so I check behind.

ep510 · #6 06-09-2005, 03:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
However, when the T hits on the river, TT just got there, so did AK, so I'll gladly check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though villian is very agressive, I don't think it's likely that he capped flop and check-raised turn with AK (esp since you have Kc) or 1010. It is much, much more likely that villian has something like AQ, AJ, KQ, or KJ. Given the check on the river, it makes it more obvious that villian does NOT have AK or 1010, and much MORE likely for villian to have one of the hands I mentioned.

Thus, I like betting the river more than checking.

hobbsmann · #7 06-09-2005, 03:14 AM

So it turned out I did have the best hand. BB turned over Q7o, CO mucked and I won. The reason why I posted this hand though is because I was so on the fence about how to play the river. Against normal opponents I wouldn't think twice about firing at the river and then being confortable folding to a c/r, but against these donks I was so confused I just ended up checking. Looking back though I'm unsure of how I would play this river if I could do it over because I definetely don't like folding to a c/r from a donk, but on the other hand I don't like the prospect of having to put in two BB to show my hand down.

Anyway....

cmwck · #8 06-09-2005, 03:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, when the T hits on the river, TT just got there, so did AK, so I'll gladly check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though villian is very agressive, I don't think it's likely that he capped flop and check-raised turn with AK (esp since you have Kc) or 1010. It is much, much more likely that villian has something like AQ, AJ, KQ, or KJ. Given the check on the river, it makes it more obvious that villian does NOT have AK or 1010, and much MORE likely for villian to have one of the hands I mentioned.

Thus, I like betting the river more than checking.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. given the turn c/r he probably doesnt have AK.

But AK could play the flop that way in the hands of an over-aggressive opponent.

Either way, we can't bet the river for value, and betting/folding to a checkraise sounds like a really bad idea.

rmarotti · #9 06-09-2005, 06:32 AM

Easy check behind.