Common annoying spot

[Prevaricator]

10/20 NL full table

You have AKo and open EP for 70. Good TAG MP (16/6) calls.

Heads up.

Flop is Ks9c2s. You do not have the As. You bet 150, about the size of the pot, which is your standard followup bet OOP, although you have checked some flops OOP before. The TAG makes it 375. Both of you started the hand with 2k.

[AZK]

just curious, what % of the time do you check a flop like this after raising? I've started checking more. Also, unless I'm at a table full of callingstations/gamblers, I limp AKo in EP

Edit: As for the hand, does he have a set or does he have a flush draw, do you have the Ace of spades? If you read him for a draw, I check-raise all in on the turn. If you think he has a set, you fold. You are the only person that can answer this question.

[Prevaricator]

This is a very grey area spot. He could easily have a set, but can I fold so freely?

What is the rationale for limping UNLESS the table is calling station or gambler. I would think that if they are calling stations, its better to limp rather than get 6 calls behind you, and if they are tight then a raise is good cause you will pick up the pot when they miss rather than giving it up when you miss.

I don't have the As. If I how should it change my action?

Is there anything to be said for the line of calling the flop and leading the turn? IMO that is better vs a flush draw than going for the CR cause he might suspect thats what you are doing and chekc behind.

[turnipmonster]

375 straight? that is a weird raise.

[Leptyne]

I'm pretty much with AZK on the point of not raising preflop in EP. Normally I will only raise (if at all) in LP. And of course my reasoning is pretty simple too. It avoids this common annoying spot.

[AZK]

By calling station, I meant, they are paying any price preflop to see a flop. If that's the case then I'm raising, They normally go away when you pot any flop. Interesting point about leading out again so that he doesn't check behind on the turn. If you have the As, it makes it easier to get him to lay down a smaller flush if he respects your play and views you as tag as well...

[turnipmonster]

I hate these spots too. against a good TAG and stop and go has less value, because he won't make the big mistake of calling you on the turn with a draw. reopening the betting on the flop allows him to stack with sets/draws, so it's really not that attractive an option either.

I hate to say it, but probably it's really a question of what range of hands he'll call a raise with in position preflop, and the likelihood he's making a move on you postflop, which will go up as you make this fold against him more and more.

--turnipmonster

[zepmetal]

I think the reason people so often ask if you have the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is not because of the runner-runner possibility, but to help you read your opponent. A lot opponents only like to raise a draw when they know it will be the nuts when they hit. If youre agaisnt one of these opponents and you have the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], you can probably rule out the draw when he raises and play acordingly.

In this case, though, opp probably knows that any flush is good if it hits (sicne the pot in headsup and its likely you dont also have a flushdraw) and may raise any 4 flush on the flop. multiway, i feel that opps are less likely to raise a non-nut flush for fear that theyll hit and run up agaisnt a bigger flush.

[Prevaricator]

I know that. I included it in my OP that I did not have it. I was just asking how you would play it differently if you had it.

[Prevaricator]

I also think if he has a flush draw, its more likely something like QJs or JTs than Axs (flush draw + gutshot)That is, he's more likely to call pf with those two hands than with a hand like A9s. I think he folds ATs and maybe AJs too but calls with AQs. He's also more likely to raise with a 12 out draw than a 9 outer I believe.