AQs in BB, common situation

[kapw7]

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In this example you have 3 opponents with 10:1 odds to call. It is unlikely that you'll win the pot and if they call, you will have no info at all.
What do you think a bet would achieve here?

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I think (1) I have the best hand some amount of the time, (2) small pocket pairs (which are better than my hand) will fold this flop much of the time, and (3) where did you get the idea that this was a bet for information, and how is check-call giving you more information?

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(1) We only have A-high (2) maybe, but flopped lower pairs will not fold (3) check-calling prevents us from getting raised by a pair of kings (even hands like A8) that will correctly try to protect their hands. Also it allows us to fold if there is a bet and reraise. Our position is not the best (it's good for a bluff bet but not here)

[crownjules]

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(1) We only have A-high (2) maybe, but flopped lower pairs will not fold (3) check-calling prevents us from getting raised by a pair of kings (even hands like A8) that will correctly try to protect their hands. Also it allows us to fold if there is a bet and reraise. Our position is not the best (it's good for a bluff bet but not here)

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On point two...

I disagree. A king is as scary to us as it is to a lower pair, probably even scarier. You have a good chance of folding a lower pair out by betting, be it PP or paired with the board.

[hbaromega]

check/fold

i think betting out is better than calling if you have any fold equity. It would be better if the field was smaller.

[benkath1]

Bet

[Aaron W.]

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In this example you have 3 opponents with 10:1 odds to call. It is unlikely that you'll win the pot and if they call, you will have no info at all.
What do you think a bet would achieve here?

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I think (1) I have the best hand some amount of the time, (2) small pocket pairs (which are better than my hand) will fold this flop much of the time, and (3) where did you get the idea that this was a bet for information, and how is check-call giving you more information?

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(1) We only have A-high (2) maybe, but flopped lower pairs will not fold (3) check-calling prevents us from getting raised by a pair of kings (even hands like A8) that will correctly try to protect their hands. Also it allows us to fold if there is a bet and reraise. Our position is not the best (it's good for a bluff bet but not here)

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(1) 3 opponents, K85 drawless board, weak limpers from two off the button, I think ace-high has a moderate chance of being best.

(2) It's okay if they don't fold if they have that lower pair. But it's not okay for them to take a free card when the don't have a lower pair.

(3) I would be surprised if A8 raises to "protect his hand". A8 is not a hand needing protection in this spot. A king might raise, and we'll call the raise, but there's no reason at all to think that a king is even out there in the first place.

(4) The liklihood of a bet and a raise if we check is very small. There are only three other players in the pot. You're preparing yourself for something that isn't going to happen.

[kapw7]

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(1) We only have A-high (2) maybe, but flopped lower pairs will not fold (3) check-calling prevents us from getting raised by a pair of kings (even hands like A8) that will correctly try to protect their hands. Also it allows us to fold if there is a bet and reraise. Our position is not the best (it's good for a bluff bet but not here)

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On point two...

I disagree. A king is as scary to us as it is to a lower pair, probably even scarier. You have a good chance of folding a lower pair out by betting, be it PP or paired with the board.

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Most flopped pairs still have 4-5 outs. I don't think they will fold a lot of times. At 0.5/1 I can see a lot of PP's calling as well (I would call).

[kapw7]

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(1) 3 opponents, K85 drawless board, weak limpers from two off the button, I think ace-high has a moderate chance of being best.

(2) It's okay if they don't fold if they have that lower pair. But it's not okay for them to take a free card when the don't have a lower pair.

(3) I would be surprised if A8 raises to "protect his hand". A8 is not a hand needing protection in this spot. A king might raise, and we'll call the raise, but there's no reason at all to think that a king is even out there in the first place.

(4) The liklihood of a bet and a raise if we check is very small. There are only three other players in the pot. You're preparing yourself for something that isn't going to happen.

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(1) And a less than moderate chance to hold (unimproved) until the end.

(2) I don't worry about giving a free card. It's not that we have a pair of Kings or AA etc. I see our hand more like a drawing hand.

(3) I would raise every time with A8/A5 even Q8

(4) It's a big pot and ppl will try to protect it. It's more likely than you think even at 0.5/1

[scotty34]

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a blank fell on the turn with only CO left after I bet.

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HU with a turn blank, I'll fire away again with my fold equity. If he calls, I'd say it's safe to assume CO is holding Kx. Reads would help there (does CO call down with nothing, or only when he has a hand). Barring anything short of an ace on the river, I'd check/fold.

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I would bet an A and check-call a Q. How do you figure a guy calling a bet on the flop and turn automatically has Kx? Is a 5, an 8, a PP, or 67 not reasonable? Especially given that this is the micros. I've seen people holding hands like 97 and even worse in these situations.

[PuckNPoker]

Since this is a "no reads" situation, this question is pretty hard to answer. We cant really calculate our fold equity because we cant define our opponents.

There is 3 situations:
1) Opponents will call down with any pair to the river, unbluffable.
2) Opponent will call down to the river with any pair and fold UI at the river.
3) Opponent has 67, or some random hand and is just hoping to hit a pair and hopes it is good. And will fold on the river UI.

The answer to the OP question is defining those 3 scenarios in a suitable fashion according to his play level. If its a no foldem/holdem game BET BET BET is a bad line.

67% of the time people miss the flop, that means across 3 opponents one of them hit the flop 30% of the time.. and he got called by 1 person. I'm betting that guy hit something, what he will do with it is just anyones guess at this point.

[topspin]

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HU with a turn blank, I'll fire away again with my fold equity. If he calls, I'd say it's safe to assume CO is holding Kx.

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I would bet an A and check-call a Q. How do you figure a guy calling a bet on the flop and turn automatically has Kx? Is a 5, an 8, a PP, or 67 not reasonable? Especially given that this is the micros. I've seen people holding hands like 97 and even worse in these situations.

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If we had position I'd check through this turn, given that the board is essentially draw-free. Given that we're not in position to take a free card and we have to call a bet if we check, I'd lean towards firing again HU on the turn hoping I had some fold equity. The lack of draws does make it more likely villain has some piece of the board, and I'm not sure I can fold if raised, so it's close.

Having said that:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.75.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls $0.50 (All-In).

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 1 all-in)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (6 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds.

River: (7 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: 7 BB

Results:
UTG has Ac 2s (high card, ace).
Hero has Jc Ah (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 6 BB.