Plan for this hand

[Drjekel]

You've got to raise - because your faced with a possible str8. The point is to charge them as much as possible for their draws right? a possible open ended has what? at the most 8 outs?

I beleive it's an easy raise - but the question would be, what to do if you were re-raised?

[brettbrettr]

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Also saving $$$ if a card like 7 falls on the turn.

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If SB leads a 7 and no one raises I'm calling.



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You may be behind to a set or str8 already, so what is your plan for the turn if SB leads and 3-bets a blank?

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If its 2 to me I'm probably mucking. If I raise and get 3 bet I'm most likely calling down.

[ChromePony]

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You've got to raise - because your faced with a possible str8. The point is to charge them as much as possible for their draws right? a possible open ended has what? at the most 8 outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the plan if you can make it two back to them, but since theyve already called one bet the only way this can happen is if the first guy 3bets. Otherwise you are essentially pumping the pot and giving them odds to call on the turn, I think waiting for a safe turn is a good play here.

[cjhellm]

I agree, you have to raise here. I hope the SB 3-bets so I can cap. If he still bets the turn after a blank, then I start to worry.

[Sarge85]

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I would raise for a free card, at the least. Then bet the turn if a good card comes.

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Why in the hell do we want a free card?

There wouldn't be many turn cards that I wouldn't be betting/raising.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[Sarge85]

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I think you need to value-raise the flop.On a draw heavy board players are going to be happy to put their money in the pot. If there's a bunch of callers they're likely hogging each others outs. 1/2 of the deck is going to make you pretty unhappy on the turn but, 1/4 of the deck will still leave you with outs.

I raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it me, or did you just give a two major reasons to wait for the turn to raise?

In a recent post I belabored the fact that people using the “Wait for the Turn to Raise” was going to far – not getting bets in on the flop in lieu of waiting for that magical safe card. Also it seemed as if many people always assumed there would be a turn bet from somebody – that won’t happen all the time in 3 or 4 handed pots. --- However IMO this is the type of situation where waiting for the turn is far superior than popping now.

Consider –

The pot is 5 handed. – not everyone one of them is on a flush or straight draw. Someone calling along likely has a pair.

So lets say that our Flop bettor was thinking of getting a good value bet on the flop with his two clubs – and it gets called by a barrage of players, some holding pairs, some holding probably less – perhaps another draw or two.

So lets say a brick falls --- Perfect. If our early bettor was on a draw he will likely check. – however out of the other players the person with a pair is going to want to bet to protect what hand he has. Even if our flop bettor was betting the flop with a pair – we are stil in good shape. Now we can pop the turn, and extract a higher price for those drawing still. The point is that there is a much higher chance of popping the turn with this many people in the hand, than say if it was 2, 3, or 4 handed.

If the flush card hits – well that will be action dependent, but we hold the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] so it isn’t necessarily the end of the world.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[27offsooot]

If sb is decent, i like waiting a lot here. He's betting into 4 people with the PFR last to act. He's drawing or has a made monster. Either way, i don't think the turn will check to u and u can raise at that point. If he's a donk, i'm raising.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to value-raise the flop.On a draw heavy board players are going to be happy to put their money in the pot. If there's a bunch of callers they're likely hogging each others outs. 1/2 of the deck is going to make you pretty unhappy on the turn but, 1/4 of the deck will still leave you with outs.

I raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it me, or did you just give a two major reasons to wait for the turn to raise?

In a recent post I belabored the fact that people using the “Wait for the Turn to Raise” was going to far – not getting bets in on the flop in lieu of waiting for that magical safe card. Also it seemed as if many people always assumed there would be a turn bet from somebody – that won’t happen all the time in 3 or 4 handed pots. --- However IMO this is the type of situation where waiting for the turn is far superior than popping now.

Consider –

The pot is 5 handed. – not everyone one of them is on a flush or straight draw. Someone calling along likely has a pair.

So lets say that our Flop bettor was thinking of getting a good value bet on the flop with his two clubs – and it gets called by a barrage of players, some holding pairs, some holding probably less – perhaps another draw or two.

So lets say a brick falls --- Perfect. If our early bettor was on a draw he will likely check. – however out of the other players the person with a pair is going to want to bet to protect what hand he has. Even if our flop bettor was betting the flop with a pair – we are stil in good shape. Now we can pop the turn, and extract a higher price for those drawing still. The point is that there is a much higher chance of popping the turn with this many people in the hand, than say if it was 2, 3, or 4 handed.

If the flush card hits – well that will be action dependent, but we hold the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] so it isn’t necessarily the end of the world.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

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One aspect I did not take into account is what hand players will put you on when you smooth call the flop.
At this level many likely think overcards immediately and will 'forget' you are there on the turn unless an A or K hits.