No Limit Hold Em Tournies; Is 7 to 3 enough?

[schroedinger]

OK, two times running I am out of tournaments late but before the money is paid with A Honor versus Honor suited (for example, AQ vs QhTh, and in that case my A was a h too!). Am I just flushed unlucky? Or should I be waiting for better cards?

In neither case was I down to my last blind, but I was one of the lesser stacks, and in both cases I felt a win would carry me on to final 4-5. In both cases, I went out a table ahead of being paid.

Frustrating, because if I had seen their cards, I am pretty sure I would go all in.

New to tournaments. New to no limit. Winning ring game limit player.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

seems to me that twice you got all your money in the pot while you had the best of it. So you lost... The problem here is?

Since you're new to no limit, you must also be new to getting cracked by crap worse than what you hold. Get used to it, it will happen again. As long as you had the best of it going in, nothing you can do.

al

[homer001]

Capone's correct. The key to No_limit tourneys is to get your money in when you have a CLEAR advantage. 7 to 3 is good enough. Unless you're in a situation where 19 people are left in a tournament that pays 18 or similar, you want to put yourself in a position to get to the last 4 or 5. At 4 or 5, you have to outplay people and have the confidence that you can outplay the people at your table. Whether you play the last 4-5 with a Thor sledgehammer or a Kitana, is a function of where you placed yourself earlier, but get to that point, not 18th.

[ohkanada]

Maybe I am missing something. When did the money get in the pot with AQ vs QTs? Did you raise all-in pre-flop and get called and then lost? Or did you limp and lose when he flopped a Ten? Is this limit or no-limit?

Ken Poklitar

[schroedinger]

Ken -- In both cases (the other one was AK vs. K9s and I did not have the Ace in his suit), I reraised a smallish raise, All-In at No Limit, in an attempt to double my stack late in a tournament but before the money.

I feel I had two choices in this situation -- play totally rock, that is simply contribute my blinds and try to outlast the others to a money slot; or take these opportunities to try and double up (note that AQ is probably about as weak as I would go) and as I said be in a position to finish in the top five. When these players put in a small raise, I was pretty sure that the worst that I had was two overcards to a small pair. I thought with a big pair these players would have either limped or made a bigger raise.

My stack was obviously covered in both cases.

[schroedinger]

Ken: Upon reflection and your question it looks like I am at least possibly too aggressive, yes, since I am making these big raises when I may even be an underdog (to something like 77).

Hand #1 -- I hold black AKo, early middle position, first hand after the second break, $75 no rebuy tournament, had just commented to (what I read as the) favorite, that I need to win two more hands (to get paid, which was a dream goal for me in this tournament). My stack is between 15 and 20x BB. There is a small ante. Two players pass and player on my immediate right puts in a raise of around 3xBB. I go all in. (This was my first EVER NL tournament, btw, so top 15% probably wasn't too bad.) I really hope to collect the money that is out there and retreat into my shell for another half hour. When he turns over K9 of diamonds I am ecstatic. Two diamonds on the flop give me nerves. A blank on the turn and my hopes rise. A diamond on the river sends me out to the ring game where I drop another couple of bills. :-( My original question was really, given that this is tournament structure (as opposed to a live game), should I be all in here if I know what he has?

Hand #2 -- I am AhQ(black) in the BB. I have one of the smaller stacks but can stand 4-5 more blinds on a post and fold strategy, which is borderline to getting me paid. All pass to left of button (approximately the same sized stack but obviously a little larger) who puts in a similar 2.5 to 3xBB raise and all pass to me. My all in essentially doubles his raise. I did not necessarily consider him committed, but realized it was close. He hesitates and calls, turning QhTh. Again I am pretty happy to be in here. But I am not happy when the flop is h h h and no more h's come on the turn and river. And again, my question is, given the tournament structure, knowing the hands (after the fact), do I want to be in, or do I want to wait for "pair over pair" situations (I can't think of any other confrontation where I would be better than locking one of his cards with a better kicker) to risk being put out here?

I was not so much asking, "were these raises correct?" (in the dark) as seeking advice on tournament strategy -- hence my caption, "Is 7-3 Enough?" (assuming that I saw through the cards to know I was the big favorite). Should I have been happy with my situation pre-flop or not? (Again, given that it is a tournament and not a live game.)

Thanks in advance.

[ohkanada]

In those 2 examples both all-in plays seem correct. And yeah you are quite happy when they call with suited hands that are dominated. I can't imagine why the 1st guy called your big re-raise with K9s. The 2nd guy was correct in calling with QTs since your re-raise was very small and you were all-in.

Anytime you can get all your chips in as a favorite you should be willing to do so. If you read past posts there are several discussions on if you should call all-in with AA on your 1st hand against several callers. Even though against several players your AA may not win 51%, you are a big individual favorite and should never think of folding.

Ken Poklitar

[schroedinger]

I noticed a mistake, but I don't think it matters, and probably was obvious.

In hand #2, the player that raised was right of the button, not the Small Blind (left of button).

[Deelah]

Problem:

If you think you have 7-1 against you winning the pot, but your pot odds is better, say 9-1. Should you call all-in? It´s positive EV but 7 out of 8 times you will go out of the tournament...fun? No.

What to do? Call anyway?

Hope you see what I mean, I just keep thinking about it. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ohkanada]

I don't think you need to follow pot odds in every situation or else you will find yourself getting into longshot draws and going for it and losing. In tournaments you only get X chips so there are times where in a live game you would call/raise where in a tourney you might even fold.

You would like to find positive situations to put all your money in play where you are the favorite. Pair vs overcards, overpair vs underpair, Big ace vs smaller ace, made hand vs drawing hand.

Ken Poklitar