Suited Connecters Cold Call

[TienXia]

Sorry guys, i dunno how to use the hand converter or even if it works with Bodog. Anyway, i was playing yesterday 2/4 on bodog which is pretty fishy. Table was 10 handed and rather loose. Players are passive for the most part. 3 limpers and then MP raises, im sitting right behind him with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and decide to call as im sure the limpers will call and quite probably the blinds as well as the calling stations on the cutoff and button. Cutoff calls, blinds fold and 3 limpers call (13.5 Sb). Is this call justified preflop since i expect a large pot, poor flop play and nice implied odds?

[jba]

i dont call here with T9s.

[meep_42]

I don't like your position, but i'm fine with a coldcall here.

-d

[ihardlyknowher]

No, maybe if you were on the Button. In MP, there is a decent chance somemone behind you will 3-bet (and maybe original raiser will cap), and your implied odds don't justify putting in 3 or 4 SBs pre-flop.

[abuljooj]

i might actually be tempted to raise at this point, most of the players behind me will probably fold at this point, and any callers after my reraise will be in earlier position then me giving me late position with suited connectors against some probably big hands all acting before me that definately don't have me on 78s, then i would start praying i hit the flop and hopefully rake in a monster pot. wouldn't try this type of play vey often tho because it usually won't work but with the right flop it can be a killer hand guaranteed to put someone on tilt after seeing you reraise PF with SC. not very orthodox but a nice twist!

[S_Perry]

[ QUOTE ]
No, maybe if you were on the Button. In MP, there is a decent chance somemone behind you will 3-bet (and maybe original raiser will cap), and your implied odds don't justify putting in 3 or 4 SBs pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fearing a 3-bet with 3-4 players left to act is silly.

[JDErickson]

Depending on the table I sometimes will call this. The more people the merrier for this hand. I would hate to have everyone behind me fold though.

This is why:

87s

[abuljooj]

[ QUOTE ]
Depending on the table I sometimes will call this. The more people the merrier for this hand. I would hate to have everyone behind me fold though.

This is why:

87s

[/ QUOTE ]

with 3 limpers then a raise, and me re-raising, chances are this will be 2 or 3 handed (most probably the people with money already invested) on the flop because i would rather have position with this type of hand, and deception since i'm playing it like AK or high PP, then to have better pot odds to chase a str8 or a flush and have it bust out. with 78s ur hoping to flop a str8 or a flush or 4 cards to a str8 or a flush, otherwise get out. the chances of 78 winning with a boat as in your example should not be the motivation to call the raise or try to get more people in the pot, very rarely will that actually happen.

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
with 3 limpers then a raise, and me re-raising, chances are this will be 2 or 3 handed (most probably the people with money already invested) on the flop because i would rather have position with this type of hand, and deception since i'm playing it like AK or high PP, then to have better pot odds to chase a str8 or a flush and have it bust out. with 78s ur hoping to flop a str8 or a flush or 4 cards to a str8 or a flush, otherwise get out. the chances of 78 winning with a boat as in your example should not be the motivation to call the raise or try to get more people in the pot, very rarely will that actually happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. If you are very sure that you can get this 5 or 6 handed or more even with the raise then it would be smart to call here. If there is a chance that the raise kills the flop limpers then no dump it.

Same situation here as a small to medium PP like 77 or 88. I will call here all day long if I can get to the flop 5 or 6 handed for 2 bets ea. Its easy to get away from if you miss the flop.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry guys, i dunno how to use the hand converter or even if it works with Bodog. Anyway, i was playing yesterday 2/4 on bodog which is pretty fishy. Table was 10 handed and rather loose. Players are passive for the most part. 3 limpers and then MP raises, im sitting right behind him with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and decide to call as im sure the limpers will call and quite probably the blinds as well as the calling stations on the cutoff and button. Cutoff calls, blinds fold and 3 limpers call (13.5 Sb). Is this call justified preflop since i expect a large pot, poor flop play and nice implied odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it curious no one has mentioned any post flop considerations. OP stated the table was generally loose passive. (I’m guilty of this too…. Posting a hand stating a table was LP, -- *but* on this hand I’m posting with my speculative hand they decided to raise)

Looking at this PF call through a microscope, and only considering PF – for the most part it’s not that tough of a call. Our Hero is likely guaranteed nearly 5:1 on an immediate call. If the BB comes along it’s almost 6:1 – bring on a cold caller or two– well you see where this is going.

Where it gets to be somewhat sketchy is considering post flop play. – and this is where cold calling with speculative hands with poor relative position gets problematic. (I posted a hand I thought I was slick for calling with, and learned some lesions from it)

Let’s say the flop comes

J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

We’ve got odds to chase that 9 – but were already dead to KQ

Lets not make it so drastic.

7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

We’re compelled to call, (large pot – pair+backdoor draws) but this board has the potential to generate a lot of action. --- and based on our position, slap dab in the middle of the field we are unlikely ever going to be in a position to close any of the action, leaving us very vulnerable to raises, 3 bets, and the like.

Sure there will be lots of cookie cutter boards we’d be happy to see filled with OEstr8 draws and flushes – but there are going to be even more that we’re compelled to call to the river, and then dump it – heavily invested - Other times we’ll be dumping right on the flop.

That’s the huge difference between cold calling with say 22 and cold calling here with 78s. With 22, we’ll know in short order how the rest of the hand plays out. 78s (or the like) we lose that luxury.

So while under the microscope those 5:1, 6:1, or higher odds look immediately attractive – you need to consider what your going to do flop and beyond. In particular – What are the chances you’ll be able to close the action post flop.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]