Semi stop and go hand.. .what do you think?

[Geordie Ramone]

This thread has switched a light on for me. Ive been busting out overplaying middle pairs in level 3/4 with a decent stack when I really havent needed to be in the pot at all.

The flop push here isnt correct not because the cards arent good enough, but because the extra chips you win dont make up for damage to your ROI when you get busted out

[citanul]

a) being out of position on the hand sucks.
b) most of the time the flop isn't going to be nearly this "perfect" for 77.
c) which pairs you play in what way, well, i don't feel like/have time to get into, but a lot of it is stylistic and opponent dependent. i'm not a big proponent of the "one right way to play" theory. but yeah, limp calling off a real chunk of your stack with 77-JJ is probably not a great way of going about things, and limping JJ at 25/50 is probably pretty cruddy too (if limping TT is not).
d) the problem, as everyone is pointing out, is that when the flop comes KTx, you're in a bad spot, even when you're ahead, and that on the flop push, you're really only expecting to get called when you're way behind.
e) meh, this hand is played poorly, honestly, from top to bottom.

citanul

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
I see the people in this thread think it's not right to limp with a mid pair in this situation or call a raise from LP.

Would things change if the hand in question was 99, TT or JJ? Are you still dumping these preflop?

And forgive me for not understanding, but shouldn't a pair of sevens be good enough of the time to make the flop push correct? I think a read might help, if you know the villian is supertight and only raises 4x with AK, AQs, AA-TT then theres a good chance you're losing, but what if you have the villain pegged as a LAG, for example?

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that a LAG is going to call your push. Therefore, you are either dominated if he is a tight player, or you are likely in a coin flip with LAG. Either case is bad for your $EV.

Your stack is fine, so there's no reason to get into a coin flip for all your chips with 77.

[luckyplayer]

Just so I'm clear, you're referring to the "limp-call", not necessarily the limp-fold? And I assume by what you're saying here that you mean mainly 77-99, but you're mostly raising TT-JJ. Is this correct?

And as far as the stop n go, I thought when Raymer coined the term, it specifically is used in situations where you are in probable coin flip situatins preflop, need the money enough that are willing to put in your stack, and want the extra chance to get the coin flip opponent to fold when he misses the flop the majority of the time. I don't think any of those three apply in this case. Also, with a stop-n-go, you push regardless of the flop. You were only going to push only if the board looked good. I don't think you usually are in position to make postflop decisions when executing the stop n go.

But I may be incorrect on all accounts.