SNG Quiz

[Isaac Newton]

[ QUOTE ]
OK so I spend an hour or so posting several paragraphs of analysis I did and found helpful and you quote out of context the one line in there that was a joke. Thanks ass.

FWIW the situation linked too is completely differnet than the one I posted on. In the other situation there are even stacks whereas in this one there are two small stacks and you are going at it with the big stack. In the one you linked to you are likely to have them dominated being as a weaker ace is a very likely holding. Here you are as likely to see 75o as AQo if you believe the oponent will push any two. If you think a large percentage of this guys push range is poplulated by Ax that would be significatly better for AK than populated with two cards you don't dominate. No one disputes that. Also different is the fact that in the other situation if you win you are the big stack on the bubble which has its own advantages. In this situation your calling and winning or losing end the bubble.

BTW the line you quoted was meant to be sarcastic to drive home that there are other considerations besides ICM namely I would love to be able to say I took someone like him out. The same is true of Gigabet and a number of other players I consider good. I wish I could remove it now, but alas I can't.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that is the problem with the math in this example. You can figure the BB's range by giving the SB a range of any two cards. But that's not realistic. They might push with junk some of the time. But almost every player will push with Ax every time. It's the most likely holding for the SB. That makes AK and even AQ good calls.

[stupidsucker]

You dont have to push this hand, but it is the most logical thing to do.

I know BB is a 2+2er, but does he know that I am?

[Mr_J]

Ok, I've been out of the game for a bit and am rusty, so I'll give it a go.

1) push. You could raise here, but I want him to know he has NO FE.

2) Any 2.

3) Brainfart, or he has a powerhouse and I'm a big dog.

4) With very little. AA-QQ.

5) Big good. 2 big stacks going head to head on the bubble to let shortstack slide itm is funny.

6) Never.

7) How many players? In shorthanded games, yes I'll lay down the law with J2 when needed, but I'll only call if it'd be stupid to fold (eg you have 2k chips and it's costing 100 to call a push from desperado shortstack in SB on bubble).

[the shadow]

[ QUOTE ]
OK so I spend an hour or so posting several paragraphs of analysis I did and found helpful and you quote out of context the one line in there that was a joke. Thanks ass.


[/ QUOTE ]

Chill. Don't be so fast to take offense where none was intended.

FWIW, your analysis struck me as thoughtful (which is more than most posts in most threads). Strassa's comments in an earlier thread still give me some pause about the right play.

The Shadow

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason there has been so much disagreement on this is because at the 10+1 level there are no metagame considerations. You won't see those people again. At the level Nick and Freemoney are playing it is important to take some -EV situations now so as to convince the SB in the situation that it is not profitable to push any two when you are in the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is that pushing any two is an indefensible play. We've seen that even when you push any two, then calling with AK is a mistake. So does calling with AK convince SB that pushing isn't profitable? Or does calling let SB know that BB calls with too wide a range of hands, thus makes is making mistakes?

[freemoney]

in an isolated hand if SB pushes with any 2 its bad for AK to call but how can it be good for SB if AK calls, wouldnt the two big stacks gain equity and both big stacks lose?

[microbet]

You mean the small stacks gain equity, right?

I may say something dumb because I'm trying to squeeze this in while working, but in the OP's hand the small stacks gain equity no matter what happens in this hand, and if there is a call they gain a hell of a lot of equity, no matter what cards either player holds or who wins (unless they split the pot)

[freemoney]

but what im saying is even if AK is losing some equity arent they losing more equity from giving up 300 chips, also isnt the SB losing much more equity if BB calls with AK?

[lastchance]

The SB loses more equity than the BB from a spite call of AK, but guess what? Even if BB calls with AKo, SB still should move all-in 100% of the time. So, you need to be spite-calling a lot of hands that you would probably rather not spite call.

And folding the 300 chips is counted in our calcuations.

[freemoney]

but what if the SB player keeps moving in the BB player keeps losing 450 in a round of blinds that could easily last 2 or more rounds, now SB opens up a 2-1 chip advantage on BB, wouldnt that be more -EV then just calling with AK?