Missed value bet w/ ten high flush?

donger · #1 06-02-2005, 08:40 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Hand-reading bonus quiz:

Put the following river cards in order of the best to worst, re: value betting the river (assuming Villain checks):

A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

JrJordan · #2 06-02-2005, 09:30 PM

Stick around for awhile donger, I like ya.

Reads?

Second nuts, I think you gotta bet it. UTG played the flop and turn way too fast to be just an Ah (unless its AhKs or something similar). I think he does the same thing with a set or KJ. Bet/call.

Bonus quiz from easiest to hardest: (Wow, that was harder than I thought it would be)

4c, Ad, Ks, Qh, Ah, 4h

4c is a given. Ad looks fairly safe because you're only losing to a set now, which looks unlikely due to the UTG limp. This limits him to 33 to beat you. Ks hits a few more full boat outs such as KJ. Qh only hurts you if he has the A which seems more likely than a flopped set or top two pair. Ah opens the risk of him having a Q (doubtful), but opens up some full boat outs too. The 4h gives you two high hearts to worry about as well which I still think is the most likely holding here.

donger · #3 06-03-2005, 05:53 AM

I would probably rank A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] higher than Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in terms of being a safe card for a value bet. He's much less likely to go buck wylde here with a dry Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] than he is a dry A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Other than that, I probably value bet most rivers.
My rankings (best value bet, to worst):
4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

FrankTheTank · #4 06-03-2005, 09:49 AM

you don't make money in hold-em by checking behind the second nuts on the river. yes a lot of players play the lone ace of hearts like he did, but players who play it like that tend to bet out when they hit, especially on the river. easy easy bet. btw, the flop raise is pretty awful as the only hands that will fold are those drawing basically dead.

donger · #5 06-03-2005, 01:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
btw, the flop raise is pretty awful as the only hands that will fold are those drawing basically dead.

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Huh? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Kimpan · #6 06-03-2005, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Huh? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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carsonj · #7 06-03-2005, 02:56 PM

i b elieve he's trying to say t ha if he didn't raise th e flop, facing sb and bb with 2 cold, hey would have stayed in, but i personally doubt that they would have.

donger · #8 06-03-2005, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i b elieve he's trying to say t ha if he didn't raise th e flop, facing sb and bb with 2 cold, hey would have stayed in, but i personally doubt that they would have.

[/ QUOTE ]

Either way, I think you absolutely have to fastplay this. You don't want to let some shitbird with the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in for one bet.

JrJordan · #9 06-03-2005, 03:07 PM

Raising this flop is SOP and it's not even close.

BabyJesus · #10 06-03-2005, 03:17 PM

I don't like the limp preflop. There is only one limper, you gave no notes saying he is terrible or that Button was v loose or SB was loose as well. As far as the river, bet that crap.

Ah will probably lead the river in fear of you having a real small flush and just checking behind, or a fastly played set/two pair. Bet river, possibly fold to a check raise, although I would probably pay it off.