A shorthanded hand I felt lost on

[macdaddy991]

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uh why not 3bet the flop? we have OESD, backdoor nut flush, and an overcard....

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We are HU and I'd rather not a) kill my action later and b) invest more when I miss.

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we have mucho outs against an overzealous BB. it may get him to slow up.

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The bad part is we are against the button, therefore OOP. We have 8 good outs, 1.5 for a BDFD, and 3 for the ace, but the ace may be no good. So I'll say 2.5 outs for the ace. So that gives us 12 outs. With all these outs, I believe our pot odds are 3 to one. Since there are only two players including hero, that is a negative EV situation to 3 bet. Plus it kills out implied payoff odds if we hit.

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you're not taking into account
1. fold equity
2. a free turn card (perhaps)

we can drop this easy on the river if we dont pick anything up on the turn.

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How can we get a free card when we are OOP? Are we going to 3 bet and then check the turn? What if the button bets? We wasted a SB when we didn't have to.

Fold Equity? Is the button going to raise and then fold the flop? Are they going to fold the turn? They can't fold the turn if you check to them. I think the 3 bet wold be great if you could trap others in with you, but heads up three betting has little or no value.

[irishpint]

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uh why not 3bet the flop? we have OESD, backdoor nut flush, and an overcard....

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We are HU and I'd rather not a) kill my action later and b) invest more when I miss.

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we have mucho outs against an overzealous BB. it may get him to slow up.

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The bad part is we are against the button, therefore OOP. We have 8 good outs, 1.5 for a BDFD, and 3 for the ace, but the ace may be no good. So I'll say 2.5 outs for the ace. So that gives us 12 outs. With all these outs, I believe our pot odds are 3 to one. Since there are only two players including hero, that is a negative EV situation to 3 bet. Plus it kills out implied payoff odds if we hit.

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you're not taking into account
1. fold equity
2. a free turn card (perhaps)

we can drop this easy on the river if we dont pick anything up on the turn.

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How can we get a free card when we are OOP? Are we going to 3 bet and then check the turn? What if the button bets? We wasted a SB when we didn't have to.

Fold Equity? Is the button going to raise and then fold the flop? Are they going to fold the turn? They can't fold the turn if you check to them. I think the 3 bet wold be great if you could trap others in with you, but heads up three betting has little or no value.

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eh, so it sounds like im wrong here. to my credit my first few responses have me saying we're against the BB in which case he might be defending kinda crazy like. (go read my old posts if you dont believe me!)

since i have a feeling none of our draws will come in, i drop this pf i guess.

[PuckNPoker]

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I might fold this on the turn, due to your 9 outs being dirtier than Dirk McGurk.

-K

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I didnt even consider folding the turn, and looking back I still think I wouldnt, I have 8 outs for the OESD, 3 ace outs, but all I need is 7.5 outs and there is implied odds to consider.

If a 9 fell I'm not sure what i'd do, I'd certainly hate it and consider it even worse than Ace high. If an Ace fell I'd check call, if I complete my straight I check raise the river.

[PuckNPoker]

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uh why not 3bet the flop? we have OESD, backdoor nut flush, and an overcard....

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I did consider that, but for all the reasons mentioned already and the fact that I have a thin edge at best IF i'm ahead I decided against raising, if I wasnt out of position raising becomes much more attractive (for the free card).

[deception5]

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since i have a feeling none of our draws will come in, i drop this pf i guess.

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?!?