Misplayed trip Qs

ElAnimal · #1 06-03-2005, 12:11 PM

UTG+2 is 61/9/1 after 20 hands. MP3 is 38/0/.8 after 20 hands

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players) BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks.

I wanted to check-raise, and I didn't think a free card here would be horrible. In retrospect, I guess I should've just value bet the flop. I've been open betting sets religiously on the flop for the last few weeks, and everybody's been insta-folding, so I decided to change it up. Is this a terrible mistake? Minor mistake?

Turn: (2.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players) BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 raises, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

I know. Bet the flop and it plays differently. Assume I bet the flop and they both called, if it helps. Are there any brave souls who make it three?

River: (8.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero folds, UTG+2 3-bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 14.16 BB

Terrible card. With a passive UTG+2 suddenly getting interested I thought he must've hit one of many draws. Passive MP3's raise put the nail in the coffin. With just one card to the set, does anybody call the raise?

gvibes · #2 06-03-2005, 12:16 PM

Raise preflop, bet flop.

Good river fold, I think.

Petertjem · #3 06-03-2005, 12:17 PM

I definitly think you should bet the flop. Why check raise for an extra SB? If you want to check raise do it on the turn (if no scary card comes).

I'm not a big fan of check raising and especially not on the flop....

Furthermore, you fold correctly I think. I would put them on a flush and a straight....

bozlax · #4 06-03-2005, 12:19 PM

Ugh. Bet the flop.

And, how about fleshing out those reads a little? 20 hands worth of stats isn't a read (among other things, according to your stats, UTG+2 has VPIP'd 12.2 hands, and MP3 has VPIP'd 7.6...not a high level of confidence, there). What have they played in those 20 hands? Were they at the table before you got there? Are they on a rush, or losing the odd tenth of a hand they play?

ElAnimal · #5 06-03-2005, 12:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And, how about fleshing out those reads a little? 20 hands worth of stats isn't a read (among other things, according to your stats, UTG+2 has VPIP'd 12.2 hands, and MP3 has VPIP'd 7.6...not a high level of confidence, there). What have they played in those 20 hands? Were they at the table before you got there? Are they on a rush, or losing the odd tenth of a hand they play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Do you want their log-in names and stack size, too? Thanks for the reply, but I played this last night, don't remember every detail, and don't see many posts that are that specific. Lord help me if I would've said they were unknowns.

SeaEagle · #6 06-03-2005, 12:31 PM

Normally check-raising on a safe board, either on the flop or turn is fine. The problem here is that nobody's going to bet at you, so you have to bet yourself. If everybody folds, fine, you weren't going to make much on the hand anyway.

Good fold on the river.

Grease · #7 06-03-2005, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop, bet flop.

Good river fold, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

Sarge85 · #8 06-03-2005, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh. Bet the flop.

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SunOfaJack · #9 06-03-2005, 12:44 PM

ElAnimal, the poster is just mentioning questions/information you should consider and would be useful to post. You should be asking yourself these questions during the course of play. If you can't answer them then the stats after 20 hands is meaningless for second guy, and you only know the first guy may be loose, so reads are weak.

Now on to the question at hand. Firstly, I prefer the word set to mean pocket pair with 3rd card on board, while I use 'trips' for 3 of a kind when 2 of them on board. You mentioned you bet sets religously and you decided to change things up a bit. Well generally you want to slow play your trips ALOT less than your sets. So bet the flop w trips vs 2 opponents 99% of the time.

bozlax · #10 06-03-2005, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you want their log-in names and stack size, too? Thanks for the reply, but I played this last night, don't remember every detail, and don't see many posts that are that specific. Lord help me if I would've said they were unknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

Screen names, no. Stack sizes if it's relevant. And, I suppose that I could've been a little more pleasant about it, but giving us small-sample stats without any backup is worthless...it actually would be better if you'd said they were unknowns. If somebody glances at your post and sees the stats but not the "(just) 20 hands" part, they're going to give you advice that may be inaccurate. Same reason as not posting results, and cutting off your post where you have the question.