I don't understand this style of play

[toots]

As alluded to in my other topic:

I was sitting at a table the other night with a woman who I'd normally call a maniac. Thing was that she was indeed a better player than most of the people at the table, which certainly wasn't saying much.

There were about five people at the table who called/raised with virtually any junk preflop, and consequently, were refilling every other orbit or so. There was a ton of money coming out of pockets and being put on the table.

Most of it was going to this one woman who, as I said, I would have pegged as a maniac. Except she was winning, and it seemed like it might be a little more than luck.

The other half of the table (including her) were grousing about how they couldn't get enough interest for a higher stakes ($15/30 or better) game or mixed game, so I assume they were just slumming at the cheaper seats.

And, I coulda swore that I heard one person say that this woman/maniac was a pro. I doubted that, given the low limits ($5/10) but after I heard them talking about getting something higher priced going, I re-evaluated my position.

One thing about her play was it was aggressive as all hell. She was pulling down a lot of pots from that alone. Ok, that part I understand.

But she was also playing looser than crap. Calling just about every pot with anything, raising with hands that I'd probably fold online. I thought maybe she had some strange hand selection, but I did catch her complain to me at one point that just about every hand she dealt had an 8 in it. Most of the other players seemed puzzled as to why this was a bad thing, so maybe she knew her crap.

What she showed down was, more often than not, not the second nuts, third nuts, or even fifth nuts. It was trash that just happened to be better trash than what the others were playing.

Ok, so I figured she had a really good read on everyone else. So, I figured the first time I participated in a hand (which wasn't very often, since I hadn't seen an A or other wheel card most of the short session), she'd fold up immediately, spotting me for a weak-tight rock.

But she didn't. Even when I showed her down with a crap hand that beat her crap hand, she didn't slow down a bit, and looked honestly surprised that I tabled a better hand than hers.

Ok, maybe she figured me for a rock who'd never go to showdown with such marginal holdings, but then again, if she figured me for that, why was she chasing me?

It would be easy to dismiss her as a lucky maniac, but being new to Omaha, I have to consider the possibility that she had some strategy that I'm not otherwise familiar with.

Any suggestions?

[bodie]

toots.
It would almost make sense if she was just slumming, not really caring if she wins or loses - and then riding the rush because she kept winning. It was just her luck that almost everyone at that table played that way anyway so it made it even easier.
Did you read an article Phil Hellmuth wrote a few issues back in CardPlayer, where he talks about how he played HoldEm in a 4-8 game and played every hand blind, and also raised on every street blind? He said everyone should try this, though I don't really know why everyone should try something like that, unless you have enough money that you don't care at all whether you win or lose. I think he said it would give you an idea of how the cards can randomly run, is that another way of saying it's all luck anyway? Can you imagine playing an innocent game of 4-8 somewhere and then having Phil Hellmuth sit down and start doing that? Wouldn't that be amusing. So maybe this maniac "pro" was doing something like that.
I've suffered through enough maniacs that I think it's really the thrill they want out of it, it has almost nothing to do with playing a good game, etc. I've found it to be worse in HoldEm, where there is a psychological factor different than Omaha - because it just seems clearer to me in Omaha if your hand will work out. In Omaha the maniacs that I play with will usually start it out by raising any A2 or AA, then the next maniac will reraise and the eventually it gets capped before the flop. The best part about those times is if you end up with the nuts to spite them all!!
So I don't think she had any sort of method that you would need to learn about Omaha - sounds like either she was just another uneducated player who was getting lucky, or someone who was having a good time and didn't care.

[templar999]

toots,

this style of play is simply "any four cards can win."

a lot of it depends on how long you sat down for. it's not unusual for someone to play 15-20 hands in a row and get a piece of the pot a good majority of the time and scoop once or twice, provided that the table is trash like you described. especially if everyone is seeing a flop, you probably wont manage to get in 20 hands in an hour, which, by extension, would make it seem like she kept up a very long winning streak.

i wouldnt be surprised if she were a terrible O/8 player. she just happened to be better than everyone else that was sitting at that table.

temp

[crazyweasel]

Regardless of what I think is the right strategy, I think it's always good to push it when I'm on a rush!

[chaos]

A hyper-aggressive strategy can work pretty well in the larger O/8 games. The games tend to have a raise or a reraise preflop and only 2 or 3 players seeing the flop. In these games you do not need the nuts.

Maybe she just failed to adjust to playing in a loose game.

[toots]

Well, that was my reaction. The way she was playing looked like it'd have been pretty good in a tight game, but this one was anything but.

[Beavis68]

I see this a lot online, one person playing junk all the way, jamming the pot, and always seem to take half of it one way of the other, may play 58 for the low, or maybe just AK for the high.

Funny though, it is never the same person.

One of these guys was at my table last night, I flopped a 20 out straight draw, and he raised me on the flop with a just an OESD. The board came running lows, and he picked up the low with 85 and some guy took the high with middle set.

He won over 24BB is about 15 hands playing like this, drawint to top two pair and no low on a board all of one suit with two low cards.

I had to switch tables, he followed me, and lost half his buy-in shortly. It helped that I had learned his MO.

[bobbyi]

A lot of people play loosely and somewhat badly when they are "slumming" at lower limits than they are used to. If she is a pro, don't assume that this is how she normally plays in the bigger games where she makes her money.