Two pair vs. 4 flush board

Macint0sh · #1 06-01-2005, 03:17 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Table has been a little wild, and I suspect that the villain is steaming. Naturally, the turn has me worried, but I don't really think he has the flush. Now, the river has me tearing down my wall because I've already been beaten by a four to the flush board twice today after flopping two pair of better, but I feel the pot is too big to lay down my two pair. I also think there's an outside chance my might show me a black 23o or something.

crownjules · #2 06-01-2005, 03:23 PM

Raise the turn and call a 3-bet. Fold the river, as you don't want to be the second overcaller..especially if you do get 3-bet on the turn.

Bodhi · #3 06-01-2005, 03:33 PM

Yup, raise the turn. You might even get the opposition to fold because the 3rd heart looks as scary to them as it does to you.

topspin · #4 06-01-2005, 03:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold the river, as you don't want to be the second overcaller

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Hero is last to act, and no one ahead of us has called SB's bet, much less overcalled.

Jakesta · #5 06-01-2005, 03:56 PM

I raise preflop. I also raise the turn. I like the river.

Macint0sh · #6 06-01-2005, 03:58 PM

How do I get them to fold when the ace is already on the board? If they've got the flush that is.

An what is my reasoning for raising the turn? If I'm beat I'm beat and I'd just give away my money. I don't see him being scared and giving me a free showdown because of it. And if he tree bets why not just fold there and then, doesn't he 'have' to have the flush?

At the turn I went into 'call down' mode, and I agree raising would be good a lot of times, but against a guy that might very well tree bet without the flush and very little chance of buying a free showdown. Doesn't seem so good to me.

Henke · #7 06-01-2005, 05:14 PM

How do I get them to fold when the ace is already on the board? If they've got the flush that is.

You don't.

An what is my reasoning for raising the turn?

Because you thought "the villain was steaming", "didn't think he had the flush" etc.. Against a normally passive opponent, I would probably call down from the turn and forward, but they usually don't bet the flop with just a draw.

If this opponent tends to be a little overagressive, then you should IMHO raise for value and hope he's just got a pair of aces.

And if he tree bets why not just fold there and then, doesn't he 'have' to have the flush?

If he three-bets with this board, then we can be quite certain he's got the flush, unless he's maniacal! But, the pot is now so big that a call is in order, to try to fill up.

Bodhi · #8 06-01-2005, 05:18 PM

No, of course you're not going to get him to fold a flush if he already has one on the turn. But suppose he has a pair of Aces and a crappy heart-kicker. He improves to a flush on the river, but he might just fold if you raised the turn and bet the river.

These kinds of boards do suck, but remember that this is a gambling game, and when you have chances you have to put the money in. Furthmore, aggressive play wins more money.

Nyarlathotep · #9 06-01-2005, 06:04 PM

You raise pre-flop with A7s? I'm fairly new, but this seems a little overly aggressive to me. I would absolutely raise the turn.

Macint0sh · #10 06-01-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You raise pre-flop with A7s? I'm fairly new, but this seems a little overly aggressive to me. I would absolutely raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I called in late posistion [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]