Maybe you can learn from my mistakes.

allenciox · #1 06-01-2005, 12:28 PM

You are in a $30+3 rebuy tourney at PartyPoker, just into second hour. Top stack at the table is a maniac who has 8000TC, you are second-highest stack at 6500TC. The rest of the table is pretty tight, and he has been running over it. Several times he has lucked out after getting it in against a better hand. According to PT, he has 55% VPIP so far, and 20% raise preflop. You are dealt As Kc in the BB. Blinds are 50/100. He minraises from MP to 200, which is folded to SB, who calls. What do you bet here?

Now, in this case, "I" raised to 1000, maniac calls, SB folds.

Flop comes Th 8h 4d. How do you play the flop?

I made a continuation bet of 1200, which was called.

Turn comes 2c. How do you play the turn?

I remembered, this guy is a calling station, let me again "represent" an overpair. I bet 2000, he calls.

River comes Qh. What do you do here?

I checked, he checked, turning over A2. He wins the pot with a pair of 2s, and I am down to 2300 chips.

Where did I go wrong here? I think the raise pre-flop was the error, considering that I was against a LAG player. Then I can check/fold the flop since I am out of position against a LAG...

bruce · #2 06-01-2005, 12:38 PM

You were unlucky, A2 vs AK, and had the best hand on the flop.
I think when he calls the flop given him being a calling station I'm done with my hand unless I improve.

The most interesting aspect of this hand is the BTF play. I think with a maniac on my immediate left I simply check BTF.
By raising him he might reraise you and then you are pretty
much forced to move all in BTF in a coin toss spot or a slight favorite. Had you not raised if you bet the flop the
small blind may not have chased you. The small blind makes
a bad call because of the pot size. AK is also difficult to
play out of position against a maniac if you don't flop anything.
Bruce

stantheman · #3 06-01-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I remembered, this guy is a calling station, let me again "represent" an overpair. I bet 2000

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems counterintuitive to me. You have no hand at this point, your purpose behind firing out again should not be to hope he calls, but rather to take it down right there. That being said...

I like the PFR (for argument's sake you could have shaved a few hundred off the raise and accomplished the same thing), but I'm done with this hand after he calls my flop bet. He's the only player at the table that can bust me, and at this point I've already committed enough chips with just A high. Check the turn and hope to see a free river.

allenciox · #4 06-01-2005, 01:33 PM

My purpose firing out again IS to hope he folds. If I check on the turn, I am 90% sure he will bet forcing me to fold. I figure with all the money in the pot, if I fire another barrel, he may believe me.

The problem with the PFR is that, due to who he is, he will usually call, and then I am playing a "drawing" hand out of position for the 2/3 time that an Ace or a King does not flop.

Pat Southern · #5 06-01-2005, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My purpose firing out again IS to hope he folds. If I check on the turn, I am 90% sure he will bet forcing me to fold. I figure with all the money in the pot, if I fire another barrel, he may believe me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when will a calling station bet you off a better hand? He's going to call with a better hand and fold a worse one, which is a very bad combination. If you check and he bets, you're beat and you can safely fold. AK is pretty but it doesn't have to win everytime.

allenciox · #6 06-01-2005, 02:58 PM

The real question here is: Should I raise pre-flop. I think the answer is that when you are playing a LAG player like this, you should flat call pre-flop out of position like this, and then check the flop unless you hit it. If you have him dominated he will pay you off with a big pot when you both hit the hand, but you will let him win a small pot most of the time.

dmk · #7 06-01-2005, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The real question here is: Should I raise pre-flop. I think the answer is that when you are playing a LAG player like this, you should flat call pre-flop out of position like this, and then check the flop unless you hit it. If you have him dominated he will pay you off with a big pot when you both hit the hand, but you will let him win a small pot most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, thats not the question. The question is why do you have 2 different reads on villian mid-hand? First you say he's a LAG/Maniac, then you go on to say that he's a calling-station. There's a big difference, and you need to figure out which one it is. The way this hand was played out, the preflop play doesn't matter nearly as much as the turn, IMO.

You don't bluff into calling stations. And if someone is LAG, you go aggressive back at him, especially w/ something as strong as AK.

I think you're concentrating on the wrong things here.

durron597 · #8 06-01-2005, 03:32 PM

I would check-raise push this flop.

allenciox · #9 06-01-2005, 05:00 PM

Hey, I like that choice... if I raise, I think that is the best play.

allenciox · #10 06-01-2005, 05:05 PM

dmk, I don't know what you'd call it but I run into this player profile a lot ---

1. Likes to play a lot of pots.
2. Raises with marginal hands.
3. If they smell any weakness, they stick around. If someone bets into them, they don't trust the bet. They either raise, or call, planning to bluff on a later street.
5. They either are out of a tournament in a few hands, or they build a big stack and put other players on tilt.

This is the kind of player I was playing against. During the rebuy phase, he first built a large stack by getting lucky, then lost it all, he then rebought a few times, then he got lucky again and doubled and tripled up.

What do you call that kind of player?