GIGANTIC Pot - But did I play it right?

scotty34 · #1 05-31-2005, 08:57 PM

MP2 is a TAG, and appears to be a pretty solid player for the most part.
MP3 is a donk calling station, I don't think I've ever seen him raise.
Button is another pretty solid TAG but is getting pretty close to all in.
SB is VERY LAG.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 3-bets, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button caps, SB calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (21 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (15.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (27.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Button calls $1.50 (All-In), Hero raises...

Final Pot: 32.87 BB

Preflop and flop I'm pretty sure are totally standard. I wouldn't want to raise the flop and blow people out with a board like this, and I also have two players probably holding QQ-AA that are going to raise behind me anyways. I don't 3-bet the flop because that would give away my hand right there to the TAG's atleast, and kill my action on later streets. The TAG raiser is also to my immediate left setting up a nice C/R opportunity on the turn.

Turn comes around, and my checkraise goes as planned, but I certainly did not expect the 3-bet. The cap here certainly gives away my hand to anyone but the dumbest players. By calling, I know I can get in another checkraise on the river, and maybe pick up a couple of extra bets that I could not have otherwise got.

I can't decide if this was a good idea, or if I should have just gone ahead an capped the turn. I guess it would only make 1-2BB in difference at the most, but I'm curious what others have to say.

crumpentunt · #2 05-31-2005, 09:14 PM

When a pot has become this large preflop and as big as it is on the turn, your main concern should be do absolutely everything in your power to win this pot.

Since the pot is so large the TAG's will expect you are raising a wide range of hands. I think in large pots like this, deception is overvalued.

imported_AAcheckraise · #3 05-31-2005, 09:24 PM

NO NO NO!!!

if your going to call a raise with TAGS and then limp on a flop like that your crazy... or to passive...

if you wanna smoothcall 1 bet, 3-BET (limp/Raise) and on the turn CAP don't get outdrawn!!!

at small stakes players easially 3-bet turn with QQ KK AA maybe AJ or TT... YOU HAVE THE NUTS, don't get drawn out by give the stupid raise a limp call... show power when you HIT HERE. I agree, only slowplay here if you wanna lose bets and get drawn out ... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

scotty34 · #4 05-31-2005, 09:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When a pot has become this large preflop and as big as it is on the turn, your main concern should be do absolutely everything in your power to win this pot.

Since the pot is so large the TAG's will expect you are raising a wide range of hands. I think in large pots like this, deception is overvalued.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't about deception really, it was about getting the most possible bets into the pot. No one is going to be folding to any sort of play, but certain plays will slow them down. I'm trying to figure out which method would get the most bets in the pot. The argument for capping the turn would be to get the money in while players are still drawing. However, it is my belief that everyone has a made hand (with the exception of MP3, who would probably call anyways with a pair of 4's).

scotty34 · #5 05-31-2005, 09:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
NO NO NO!!!

if your going to call a raise with TAGS and then limp on a flop like that your crazy... or to passive...

if you wanna smoothcall 1 bet, 3-BET (limp/Raise) and on the turn CAP don't get outdrawn!!!

at small stakes players easially 3-bet turn with QQ KK AA maybe AJ or TT... YOU HAVE THE NUTS, don't get drawn out by give the stupid raise a limp call... show power when you HIT HERE. I agree, only slowplay here if you wanna lose bets and get drawn out ... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone was going to hit a higher set and draw out on me, it was going to happen either way. If you think I can make QQ-AA fold here, you are crazy.

Buckmulligan · #6 05-31-2005, 09:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop and flop I'm pretty sure are totally standard.

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I actually hate the flop. I might not raise the innital bettor, but there is no reason not raising the MP bettor. Absolutely none. The pot is huge and no one is going anywhere.

2+2 wannabe · #7 05-31-2005, 09:39 PM

i don't like the flop smoothcall acting last with everyone already calling - but that's relatively minor

you HAVE to cap this turn though - you have 100% chance of getting the extra bets in - this cost you 3BB right there

river you'd lead out after your cap (you're getting button's last buck-fifty for sure, and maybe raise-fest from MP2).

i really think this non-turn cap is a big mistake

2+2 wannabe · #8 05-31-2005, 09:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop and flop I'm pretty sure are totally standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually hate the flop. I might not raise the innital bettor, but there is no reason not raising the MP bettor. Absolutely none. The pot is huge and no one is going anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

imported_AAcheckraise · #9 05-31-2005, 09:41 PM

I agree with pushing them out, but you may push (and should) pushout and longshot draws if they have any pot odds knowledge on cold calling 2 sb's or 2 BB's... The main point is that I was exclaiming to "Get you money in the pot while your ahead, nobody can beat you as it stands not to meantion, nobody seems like they will dropout"

MrWookie47 · #10 05-31-2005, 09:42 PM

Seriously. I think I'd call/3bet that flop, but more importantly, why the hell are you pushing the call button on the turn? What the hell are you thinking? Cap that every single time. You missed many BB there.