NYC poker raid?

[iceman5]

We're not talking about arresting someone. We're talking about asking them for ID.

Being inside an illegal poker room IS probable cause to detain someone long enough to identify them even if gambling itself isnt illegal in NY (which I didnt know).

Im quite sure they got everyones ID. What if someone who works there (which IS illegal) was walking around the poker room when the raid occurred and tried to fit into the crowd un-noticed. The police need to detain everyone to see who works there right?

NY law is different in some areas than Texas law and i dont know if its illegal to merely work there or if the police would have to see them in the act of dealing or working there in some other fashion.

An abandoned house that is being used to sell crack isnt illegal in itself (the house I mean), but being inside of a suspicious place IS probable cause to detain someone even if the person is doing nothing at that moment.

[nothumb]

Let me just say that I am about as far out in left field as one can be about civil liberties and state-sponsored force (i.e. cops). But iceman comes across as eminently reasonable in this thread. His interpretation of the law as it exists in this situation is accurate. If you have a problem with the situation (which I do) you need to look at the enforcement priorities of the department, not the beat cops who conducted the raids.

NT

[Luv2DriveTT]

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We're not talking about arresting someone. We're talking about asking them for ID.

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Why are people still focused on the silly ID question? The real issue is the raids, the future of the players and management of each room, the loss incurred by each player, and the future of poker in NYC.

Get over it, or start a topic in OOT or something... Iceman is right... fair... and logical (which is what we should all aspire to be). End of discussion. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Wynton]

I would prefer that we focus on the practical issues surrounding the raid. But I just can't resist offering this one bit of clarification on NY law.

Simply put, NY law provides as follows:

(1) If the police want to approach someone and request information, all they need is "some objective credible reason for that interference not necessarily indicative of criminality."
(2) The "common-law right to inquire" requires a "founded suspicion that criminal activity is afoot and permits a somewhat greater intrusion in that a policeman is entitled to interfere with a citizen to the extent necessary to gain explanatory information, but short of a forcible seizure."
(3) If an officer has a "reasonable suspicion that a particular person has committed" a crime, NY statutes authorize a "forcible stop and detention of that person."
(4) Finally, if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed a crime, the officer may arrest and take that person into custody.

This language comes from the seminal case People v DeBour, decided in 1976, and has been reaffirmed many times.

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
I would prefer that we focus on the practical issues surrounding the raid. But I just can't resist offering this one bit of clarification on NY law.

Simply put, NY law provides as follows:

(1) If the police want to approach someone and request information, all they need is "some objective credible reason for that interference not necessarily indicative of criminality."
(2) The "common-law right to inquire" requires a "founded suspicion that criminal activity is afoot and permits a somewhat greater intrusion in that a policeman is entitled to interfere with a citizen to the extent necessary to gain explanatory information, but short of a forcible seizure."
(3) If an officer has a "reasonable suspicion that a particular person has committed" a crime, NY statutes authorize a "forcible stop and detention of that person."
(4) Finally, if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed a crime, the officer may arrest and take that person into custody.

This language comes from the seminal case People v DeBour, decided in 1976, and has been reaffirmed many times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. You win the kewpie doll.

[GreywolfNYC]

There's been too much noise, too much publicity. Too many blurbs in the press about "celebrities" playing poker in NYC. Too many threads right here about the NYC "poker scene". Too many husbands pissing off their wives by blowing the mortgage money. Too many times when Johnny is cutting class and putting a match to Mom & Dad's money in the poker rooms. Too many calls to the cops by the same people. Too much of the "Moneymaker effect." Too many low-life weasels talking to reporters. Too many douche bags writing for the Post. Too many rats waiting to rat you out. Too many vipers in the legal profession just waiting to put your ass in jail if it will advance their careers.
If this sounds like a rant, it is. I don't give a [censored]. I was there when PS got raided. It wasn't fun. And the people who worked there not only lost their livelihood but wound up being caged for the weekend like a bunch of stinking animals. Just think about that next time someone says that they heard it was all laughs and good times down at central booking.

[GreywolfNYC]

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There is a judge on duty in NYC 24-7-365. 24 hrs to be arraigned.

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No, there isn't.

[giantsrule]

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There is a judge on duty in NYC 24-7-365. 24 hrs to be arraigned.

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No, there isn't.

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Arraignments are open 365 days a year. Manhattan use to be round the clock, but it may now only be 9 a.m. to 1 a.m., Brooklyn is 9 a.m. to 1 a.m. every day. You don't have to wait until Monday. You are suppose to see a Judge in 24 hours, but it doesn't always happen.

[giantsrule]

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The NY State Constitution gives Albany rather incredible powers in regard to regulating gaming, and unless they say "poker is legal,".....

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It's much worse than that. The NY St. Constitution specifically prohibits legalized gambling. There are exceptions for horse racing and the lottery. So you can't just pass a law legalizing certain forms of gambling. Turning Stone and the proposed Catskill casinos can exist because they're Indian casinos. The legislature was able to skirt the constitutional prohibition with the "video lottery terminals" (which I believe are now operating in some places) because they claimed they were really just a lottery that looks like a slot machine.

[jnalpak]

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There is a judge on duty in NYC 24-7-365. 24 hrs to be arraigned.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, there isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]
Arraignments are open 365 days a year. Manhattan use to be round the clock, but it may now only be 9 a.m. to 1 a.m., Brooklyn is 9 a.m. to 1 a.m. every day. You don't have to wait until Monday. You are suppose to see a Judge in 24 hours, but it doesn't always happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

come on people.

CHUNG!CHUNG!

Does anyone watch LAW & ORDER? there is always a judge available for bail and warrants in NYC...AND sometimes you have to call them while they sleep.

CHUNG!CHUNG!

I think i liked the ID conversation better

CHUNG!CHUNG!