Early tourny, tough spot

hurlyburly · #1 05-31-2005, 01:48 PM

Comments on all streets, please:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter

CO (t2054)
Button (t4630)
SB (t1885)
BB (t1170)
UTG (t1575)
UTG+1 (t2455)
MP1 (t1640)
MP2 (t2960)
Hero (t1435)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to t150, 1 fold, Button calls t150, SB calls t125, BB calls t100.

Flop: (t600) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t300, Button calls t300, SB folds, BB folds.

Too low, too high? Obvious continuation bet? Hindsight I'm thinking 450-600 would have been a better bet.

Turn: (t1200) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t500, Button calls t500.

I never fire twice, gave it a try here. I thought it looked like a good value bet representing a strong ace or weak flush. Would a C/R have been a better line?

Please examine this without considering folding (too obvious).

River: (t2200) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Didn't have any FE so no point wasting anymore chips...

Final Pot: t2200

Yes, I know the cards aren't great, but I'm not winning with great cards, either.

dmk · #2 05-31-2005, 01:55 PM

I think you have to give up on the turn. If he's calling on the flop, he has an A or 2 clubs 95% of the time. He's definitely not going to fold either of them for 500 on the turn, and I don't think it would be prudent to risk anything more trying to take this pot away. Check/folding seems to be the best option on the turn.

Maybe someone else can help with the flop bet? I personally don't think betting into 3 ppl is a good idea here. If it gets checked through, you get a free look at a 6-outer to the straight. If button bets, you get to see the action before it gets to you. I think checking is better than betting here, but I'm still working on my postflop play, so hopefully someone else can chime in.

trevorwc · #3 05-31-2005, 01:58 PM

I like trying to make a play with hands like this. However, I would have bet in the 500 range on the flop. 300 gets you a call from even a weak A. When I'm called on the flop and don't hit my straight or at least grab a flush draw on the turn, I'm DONE with a hand like this. I'm not afraid to fire a second barrel, but I'm not doing it on a board with an A. Unless you have a read that this guy will make a laydown, no chance I bet the turn. Too many people will call that with any A. Hope he checks behind and get a free look at the river - fold to any bet.

A_PLUS · #4 05-31-2005, 02:01 PM

I think your preflop bet should have been 200. if you are trying to steal the blinds, for some reason, I have seen that 200 has a bigger psychological feel to bad players than 150. But that may be complete BS.

On the flop. I think you have to check-fold, maybe call a smallish bet to complete your draw. 3 opponents, I dont feel comfortable that one of them doesnt have an Ace. If they do, you are going to have a very hard time getting them out of the hand.

If the flop were 3 non-Aces, you still would have had to bet more than 1/2 the pot, IMO. The only line I would like is a check raise, one the flop. This way you can be sure you are only up against only one opponent, although with your position, it looks a little fishy.

nightlyraver · #5 05-31-2005, 04:24 PM

Preflop: Was this a raise to steal the blinds? IMO I don't like to do this so far off the button with such a weak hand so early in the tourney. Once I'm called I tend to shut down.

Flop: You have a weak draw and there is an ace on board. There are also four players. Simply way too likely that your continuation bet will be called by a weak player on a flush draw or by a weak player who will just call you down with any ace. I don't think I would even bother betting here unless my table image was real tight, in which case I would have to bet at least 2/3 the pot (t400-t500).

Turn: Once you were called on the flop, you pretty much need to shut down. It's fairly obvious the button intends on seeing the river. If you think a big bet will drive him off his hand, then make it. Unfortunately, you don't really have that many chips. You could try to move in on him and push him off his flush draw (if that's what he has) but that move is pretty risky.

SpeakEasy · #6 05-31-2005, 04:45 PM

Pre-flop: fold.

Flop: as played, you bet exactly the amount that would give a flush draw perfect odds to call. Bet bigger or bail out.

Turn: You are cooked. The flush draw came through, and the call of your bet is likely confirmation. Even if Button only has the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], you are nearly giving him correct odds to call again on the flush draw alone, and certainly with the pair of aces. I also would not check-raise here. The previous calls signal too much trouble.

docknet · #7 05-31-2005, 04:46 PM

My experience early in the tourny is that it is hard to steal blinds when they are small.

However, since the blinds are up to $50, you have been sitting here long enough to know whether stealing at this table is profitable. There are some tables on PS where you will get called with any ace, small pair, or any suited. I've been called my 3 and 4xBB raises by 62s more than once at PS.

Anyway, all that is to say that you didn't include whether this was a tight or passive table, so it is impossible to know whether the attempted steal was wise. But one thing is certain, if you've bluffed in a multiway situation and get callers (more than one), you should get out, rather than keep bluffing.

Pat Southern · #8 05-31-2005, 05:03 PM

Fold preflop. I dont like the turn bet, either push or check/call or check fold depending on the size of the bet.

hurlyburly · #9 05-31-2005, 05:45 PM

The table had been passive up to this point, I'd won a few small pots, then lost my profits with QQ. My image has to be solid up to this point as I've only played 3 hands and showed AK, AK, and QQ.

This hand was about 1 rotation after the QQ hand and I hadn't been in a single pot.

hurlyburly · #10 05-31-2005, 05:57 PM

Yeah, folding preflop is the right play. I would have preferred check/folding the flop. I was steaming and carried it too far.

I think 450-600 on the flop would have won the pot.

I bet this like I would a strong Ace hand or flush draw, which is why I bet strong on the turn when the Jc came (it also surprised me that he called there).

He called me down with ATs, further reinforcing what an idiot play this was.