Standard or Stupid?

sean c · #1 05-31-2005, 02:22 PM

Live 6/12. Very loose juicy game.
UTG- very loose and passive
MP- very good TAG
SB- very loose and tilting

Pre flop- UTG calls, folds to MP who raises, folds to SB who calls, Sean calls in BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], UTG calls.

Flop- J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] SB bets, Sean raises,UTG three bets, MP capps, SB calls, Sean folds, UTG calls.

Anybody play this different pre flop or flop?

Stack · #2 05-31-2005, 02:25 PM

This situation sucks. I fold too.

brettbrettr · #3 05-31-2005, 02:27 PM

I like it. Once the passive guy 3 bets I'd be a bit upset about not being able to ditch this for one more bet. Once the TAG caps I'm happy to throw it away.

peterchi · #4 05-31-2005, 02:39 PM

Gotta call pre-flop getting 7:1 (assuming UTG will call), even with the prospect of potentially being dominated.

On the flop you're getting 22:2 when it comes back to you (again assuming UTG will call). MP might have aces, but maybe not. A flush draw might be out there, but not always. A set would suck. If all your outs are clean, you've got 5 of them. Since they might not be, make it ~4. And no backdoors.

The math says it's a close fold, but the pot is getting ginormous.

Ok I've changed my mind like 5 times (as is evident in my writing) but I think I'm gonna fold since I might in fact be drawing dead. but I'd like to hear what others have to say.

molawn2mo · #5 05-31-2005, 02:49 PM

perfectly played.

sfcard · #6 05-31-2005, 02:55 PM

nh

Card

crunchy1 · #7 05-31-2005, 03:31 PM

It's definitely close. You're likely looking at between 3-4 outs (after discounting).

There's only 1 combination left of JJ which has you dead to catching running aces. There are 3 combinations of AA which have you dead to hitting 1 of 2 jacks by the river. But I think there's more likely a couple flush draws out (reducing those outs against you) and MP could very easily have one of the 12 combinations of KK/QQ.

I call and reevaluate on the turn.

KornGeek · #8 05-31-2005, 04:08 PM

Because there is a "very good TAG" raising pre-flop, I wouldn't be feeling very strong about my Jacks. I would have simply called on the flop rather than raising.

Because you have a passive player raising, there is reason to be concerned. He could easily have made two pair with 7s and 4s or any of a variety of other bizarre hands.

Again, because MP is evaluated as very good, I would believe that he is respecting the raise from a passive player and still feels he can beat it.

Then again, maybe he's re-raising hoping to drive out you and SB by making you call the double and triple bets respectively.

In this position, I believe you should fold, but it's a painful thing to do. I don't believe it is very wrong to call considering the size of the pot, but I would expect further losses on later streets, making it unprofitable.

ElAnimal · #9 05-31-2005, 05:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would have simply called on the flop rather than raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

From a hand protection standpoint, I think that's suicide. You're just inviting every A, K, Q or weak draw to come along for the ride. You've got to raise in that spot. TAG could have a million hands you beat at this point. Once he caps, things change.

TripleH68 · #10 05-31-2005, 05:31 PM

Tough one.

MP's preflop raise could be an isolation attempt. So the hand you are worried most about is a set from one of the loosies.

When MP caps the flop you must consider an overpair or flush draw(which you may have reverse dominated), but a tag may also play TPGK like this no?

Given the size of the pot I think hero must see the turn. You may get an easy/cheap decision on the turn.