new Phil Hellmuth book?

[roGER]

Hello Rick,

I agree with your comments 100%.

Perhaps the main problem with "batting average" is that the information, while available, is almost impossible to collect... To take poor old Phil as an example, I haven't a clue how many tournaments he has entered in his career, or even in the past year.

Judging from comments by journalists such as Lee Munzer and Nolan Dalla, I suspect a hardcore of tournament regulars play perhaps as many as one to two hundred tournaments every year, although of course many of these must be for small stakes. Perhaps one of these journalists who regularly cover the larger events could "keep tabs" on the tournament pros, and thus come up with an estimate of their "batting average."

I dunno if you go to the pokerpages website, but Nolan posted an excellent article there a couple of months ago where he lamented the state of tournament poker, alluded to the huge variance, and concluded it was next to impossible to earn a living, let alone a decent living, by exclusively playing tournaments - the earn rate is too low, the luck factor is too high, and the cost of travel and staying in hotels just doesn't make it viable.

HOWEVER! There are (I suspect) a few (very few, perhaps less than 10) exceptional people who can do it, especially if their ring-game ability is also high...

- roGER

[Rick Nebiolo]

roGER,

Agree the overall tournament batting average information is very hard to collect and most tournament players would want information (including how they do in ring games) to be as misleading as possible. Reasons:

- They are in fact winners and want to shelter winnings from the IRS.

- They are in fact losers and want to shelter their image and ego.

- They had a big win early in their career and can't face up to the fact that they don't have the edge they thought they did.

BTW, I read Nolan's article and only wonder why it took him so long to figure this out.

Also, the WPT is bringing some of the great ring game players into tournaments (e.g., Howard Lederer). These players (who don't depend on tournaments) are going to make life a lot tougher for Phil and others.

Regards,

Rick

[river]

Thanks, Mason I look forward to your review. Especially having just read these 2 things about the book...

At High Stakes bookstore they quote Amarillo Slim as saying: "Play Poker Like the Pros is the best poker strategy book ever written."

And at Amazon, amongst the editorial spiel about it, it says "Phil Hellmuth will teach you how to stay cool under pressure." Hahahaha [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Rick Nebiolo]

river,

I assume you want Mason to review it but this is one very likely terrible book I plan to read just for laughs. If I do I'll post a review or comments.

[Jedi Poker]

I kinda liked the no-limit holdem section. Not only does Phil discuss his own "theories", he also discusses the no-limit "theories" of Daniel Negreanu, Huck Seed, and Devilfish Ulliot. So far, the no-limit chapter is the only one that I've read. I'll be reading the rest of the book in the weeks to come.

[JTG51]

I saw Hellmuth's book in Borders Books today. I read the first few chapters, which was mostly about limit hold'em. To be fair, I have to assume his no limit stuff is much better, but what I read was some of the worst poker advice I've ever seen. It certainly gave me even more appreciation for the great stuff that 2+2 puts out.

The main idea of his limit hold'em advice is to only play 10 hands (AA, KK, QQ, AK, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AQ, 77) and to play them from any position for any amount of bets. He says to raise every chance you get before the flop with them. His only caveat was to slow down if something strange happens, like a very good player 3-betting and a very weak player capping. He says then you should think about slowing down with some of those hands. I'm looking forward to playing against anyone who reads this book and starts routinely 4-betting me with AQ and 77.

One reason he gave for putting in as many bets as possible preflop with AK was to make the pot so big you'll have the right odds to call your opponent down with A high. That way you won't get bluffed out.

It made my head hurt. Thank god Borders had Poker Essays, I had to read a couple to get rid of the headache.

I'll probably go back and read his tournament and no limit stuff, it has to be better, but the limit hold'em section seemed worse than useless.

[balt999]

There must be a method to his madness cause he is a very successful tournament player. GOing to stop by the gamblers book store to grab me a copy..should make for interesting reading.

[David Steele]

From the Amazon book reader reviews for a laugh:


****(stars) I have been playing poker since I was 8 and this is most detailed and easy to follow poker book I've ever read. I've never been able to figure out how to win some of the harder games, but this book really has made me know how to be a pro. I gave it to my neice who wants to learn how to play--so it's great for beginners too. Thanks Phil Hellmuth--there's a reason you're the champ!

[lorinda]

One reason he gave for putting in as many bets as possible preflop with AK was to make the pot so big you'll have the right odds to call your opponent down with A high. That way you won't get bluffed out


This is a typical comment that I might have come up with when switching from NL to Limit.

The initial reaction when starting on limit poker having been successful at pl and nl is to get as much in as you can preflop with the best hand and hope the rest kinda works out okay.

Seems to me like he hasn't thought much about limit at all

Lori

[jaydoggie]

I bought the book a few days ago, considering my Borders/Barnes and Noble didn't carry Sklanskys Holdem (not for advanced players) book. Ive been reading it, and some of the plays did strike me as crazy. I'm glad I read here that I wasnt alone before adopting some of these techniques.

He claims he made $20,000 in 1986 playing this style in low limit games, but from waht I gather he has an above average "feel" of other players. He credits that to post-flop raising to "find out where he's at". But I think my competition is too passive to tell me where they are at. Alot of the games I play in, people will just call raises with the absolute nuts. :/

Also in low limit 1-2,2-4,3-6, from my experience the only time many players will fold mediaocre drawing hands is with plenty of raising between other players. Then again Im a newbie and probably dont know anything.

I still plan on completing the book while I wait for Texas Holdem, Theory of Poker to arrive.

[img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

btw you can listen to phil tell you in his own voice to play only those 10 hands with his reasons here.