couple hands from wild table

fireman664 · #1 05-28-2005, 03:05 AM

I dont usually do well at wild tables, thus the reason for the post. I love loose tables, but the wild crazy tables usually hurt me (this must be a leak in my game)

hand #1 The 2 villans who see the hand through were 73%/16% and 92%/27%

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks.

woulda bet my first born SOMEONE would have bet it

Turn: (2.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, SB folds, BB folds.

River: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

hand #2

interesting hand for me, because I normally dont play J10s this fast, but felt like it was the perfect kind of hand for this table (same players involved)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 3-bets, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls, Hero caps, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (20 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (19 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: 19 BB

damaniac · #2 05-28-2005, 03:12 AM

I'm not sure why Hand 1 is a problem for you, unless you wanted more action. Since the two players left to act were your maniacs, it probably isn't unreasonable to look for a check-raise (and thus trap the field), although in other situations I'd just bet out as I'd loathe getting it checked through and lots of hands will peel regardless. As it is, when you cripple the deck like that you usually don't get too much action. It looks like did alright.

Hand 2, I think JTs is not the hand you want against maniacs. I'd really prefer something with showdown value, either a medium pp or a decent suited A. Not that there's anything wrong with it (or even iso-raising with it at certain times), but you need to hit to win and will often get outdrawn by higher pairs, whereas you can take your A or pair to showdown if you get HU against a maniac and expect to show a profit. I'd limp the JTs here as you are up against maniacs who will often raise anyway, and you're going to want to hit the flop before going wild with this hand, for the reasons mentioned before.

I also really think Hand 2 should be a call on the flop, looking to raise a safe card on the turn.

Edit: I should add that given this table is wild and does not have just one lone maniac who you can isolate, the idea of taking any pp or decent A to showdown obviously doesn't apply multiway. If you hate variance you can tighten up and play your big pairs and big suited broadways. If you like max EV and play well postflop, you can go with the pairs and some other suited cards too.

fireman664 · #3 05-28-2005, 03:19 AM

interesting.

Do you think a table like this is a little to much action preflop for JTs? I am just curious, because my thinking once it was 3 bet after my raise (which was happening every other hand with donk cards) was that this hand has to have +equity vs 3 other players with VERY loose starting/raising standards. I could be WAY off here though.

I like your call, then pop the turn with a safe card approach on this flop.

damaniac · #4 05-28-2005, 03:29 AM

It depends. On hand 1 there was no pfr. If most hands were going 3 and 4 bets, I'd dump JTs. If they were going 3 and 4-bets 4 or 5 ways, I might reconsider it, especially if it were very aggressive postflop as well (you make a flush draw/straight draw, you get paid). It's probably +EV to play JTs at a table of maniacs if you play well postflop, but it's going to add to your variance (I think).

Wepeel · #5 05-28-2005, 11:58 AM

I'm still deciding whether or not the preflop limp in hand 1 is a good idea knowing there are two maniacs to your left who will most likely raise any two they like. In a loose passive game with minimal preflop raising this is an easy limp to sucker in 4+ to the flop.

However, my question is, knowing there are two maniacs left to act should you be raising A9s here? Also, I think it matters how the other players are adapting to the table. Once people start realizing the maniacs are raising any two they start 3betting with more marginal hands, which could be another reason why limping may not be good. I'm just confused, any help on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

fireman664 · #6 05-28-2005, 12:13 PM

Just to help a little with the table conditions.

There were 4 players seeing over 75%. There were also 4 of us under 20%, leaving 2 in the 30's. Most hands were getting raised, but almost always either cold called by the maniacs, or they did the raising. I wouold say averaged 5 to a flop. I felt like I could limp from EP with AXs because we were going to be 5 way regardless if it got raised behind me. If it was raised a couple of times I could let the hand go if conditions werent right.

My thinking could be way off. I was looking to play hands that make BIG hands when they hit (the big suited connectors, and PP)

again, dont usually do so well at these kinda tables, but I know I should be.

brettbrettr · #7 05-28-2005, 12:24 PM

Hand 1, raise pre-flop, bet flop. They don't give you credit when you bet.

Hand 2 I like a pre-flop limp, bet the turn, fold to aggression.

Harv72b · #8 05-28-2005, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I dont usually do well at wild tables, thus the reason for the post. I love loose tables, but the wild crazy tables usually hurt me (this must be a leak in my game)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably because you're limping borderline hands like A9s first & second in. You just can't do that on a loose, aggressive table & hope to win consistently. Ditto for the 2nd-in raise with JTs...that's a good hand to limp behind with, especially on a wild table.

So for hand 1, you fold preflop. When you flop the nuts, you BET IT!! What were you hoping to do, check/raise? These clods will call your flop bet with any old holding, maybe even play back at you with a K or flush draw, so there's no point in checking it. Never, ever slowplay against LAGs--you're just cheating them out of bluffing opportunites & yourself out of money.

I like the play postflop in Hand 2.