8/B 5-10 Hand

[mscags]

Anyone play this differently? Villian's board got a bit scary, but no one was showing any strength and my board was so strong looking. Anyone check 5th or is that an easy bet? I hate having second best hands in both directions.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.70 SB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (3.35 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (6.35 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

River - (9.35 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___raises

Total pot: (15.35 BB)

[Andy B]

I limp on third. 876 is fine, but I don't really want to invest a whole lot before I have a decent draw. The guy who limped with the Trey could easily have a stronger hand than you.

Betting fourth is OK. I would check fifth with the intention of folding if 356 bets. If he does not have a made low, then he probably has a higher pair than yours to go with a better four-card low. Do you see why? (I think that this is the first time I've used this phrase in a post.) Fives are key to your hand, and two of them are out. I think that this is the time to give up.

As we stampede forward, the other low board failed to raise. This means one of two things:

1) Your low is good on sixth street.

2) He doesn't know what he is doing.

Quite possibly both. I think you can bet here.

I don't see much value in betting the river. It appears that one or perhaps both of your opponents are drawing to better lows than yours. If seat 7 is drawing to a flush, he will either raise if he gets there or fold if he doesn't. If I have this read right, and the other low hand paired on fourth or fifth, then he has a very large number of outs against Fours-up for high. It is certainly possible that you will make money on this bet, but I'm pretty confident that it's -EV.

[mscags]

Yeah looking at it again I think 5th is an easy check and fold. My fives are dead for my straight and if I'm ahead in either direction its probably not by much. Do you think that 678 is worth a completion if I'm first one in?

[DeadMoneyOC]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think that 678 is worth a completion if I'm first one in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it depends on what are cards are to act behind you and how good the players behind those cards are. If there is a lot of paint behind you and your 6 is the low card then go ahead and raise if you think you will still get action from the high hands. If you have a lot of babies or aces to act behind you this is not a good play. It also depends on your table image and such. I dont think completing as the first one is a very good play in general though. You leave yourself too open to someone raising/isolating you with much better hands that have yet to act. This has to do with how the table is playing also...

[SuitedBaby]

Nice analysis by Andy. I particularly like the "Do you see why". Wonder where he got that, :-). Works for me since I often have to be encouraged to think.
The only exception I take is that I like the completion on 3rd. 876 will play well heads-up against most limping lows if you can get the bring-in to fold and then also you will be in charge on 4th. Note, if the limper had a 3 low with an ace or any playable pair they should be completing first in. Even if the bring-in calls you aren't in bad shape and they have no idea where you are at.

[Hauser_III]

[ QUOTE ]
he probably has a higher pair than yours to go with a better four-card low. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I vote to ban Andy immediately for using the phrase "Do you see why?" I'll let others elaborate.

[Andy B]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Guess I missed something.

[Andy B]

To answer the original query, yes, I think that 876 is well worth raising with first-in, espeically if the Eight is in the hole.

If the other guy has an Ace in the hole, 876 is not particularly good heads-up.

1) An awful lot of three-card lows contain an Ace.

2) A lot of players don't raise with a three-card low.

And I'm not convinced that the other guy "should" raise coming with with (A7)3 or even (A4)3. Against a raggedy three-card Seven, he's in good shape, but I think that on balance, he's better off limping and seeing what happens.

[SuitedBaby]

I think first in if you are going to play, completing is almost mandatory with A7 3 and A4 3. Isn't it good to have put the bring-in to a decision, especially with these hands? I almost always want someone to raise if I voluntarily play even if it is someone ahead of me and I call. Am I wrong? If I am, and I certainly might be, it is simply because I am often unable to "see why", :-).