comments on fold vs call?

cfjr2 · #1 05-24-2005, 12:22 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO folds, SB raises, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

topspin · #2 05-24-2005, 12:26 AM

I'd fold the flop, you don't have odds to draw to your gutshot here.

bottomset · #3 05-24-2005, 12:29 AM

you are a 10.75/1 underdog, getting 7/1 closing the action

its not horrid but you should fold, its a better call on a rainbow board or getting 9/1 or better

istewart · #4 05-24-2005, 12:29 AM

If it were rainbow he could take one off with implied odds, but with the heart draw out there you'll generally want a bigger pot.

cfjr2 · #5 05-24-2005, 05:09 PM

I was thinking that with the gutshot (5:1) and the backdoor flush draw (16:1) pulling a card was ok (net is about 4:1 if I've figured this correctly).
My actual question is on the turn - since the club came should I have called 2 bets?
I think not but have been double guessing myself since the river came with the flush and the double bets that I thought were higher made flushes were only straights ;-p

nickg1532 · #6 05-24-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking that with the gutshot (5:1) and the backdoor flush draw (16:1) pulling a card was ok (net is about 4:1 if I've figured this correctly).

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you're 10.75:1 (not 5:1) to make your gutshot on the turn. I don't know if you're thinking about your odds of hitting by the river with that 5:1, but you should be using 10.75:1 as your odds here. (If you're going to think of it as the odds you'll hit by the river, than you're going to have to account for what kind of action you're likely to face on the turn, which is impossible to do with any sort of reliability). Also your BD flush, being a one card draw to the 9 high flush, is worth about nothing here. You probably want to fold this flop, and certainly the turn.

edit: don't forget with the two flush board, one of your outs will often be no good, making a call even worse. save these kinds of draws for bigger pots

milesdyson · #7 05-24-2005, 05:39 PM

I would call this flop on a rainbow board and if I knew UTG would bet again and that CO and SB were calling stations.

You're getting 8:1, you'll be able to check raise the turn and probably get 3-4 more BB there and another 1-2 BB on the river. That's like 8+ more SB if you hit - more than enough to account for the times you lose to running flushes or a Q on the turn to give an A a straight.

gharp · #8 05-24-2005, 05:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My actual question is on the turn - since the club came should I have called 2 bets?

[/ QUOTE ]

This confuses me. The BD flush you're chasing is the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flush, right?