would you show this down against two

medaugh · #1 05-24-2005, 10:50 AM

villans are calling stations don't show that much agression. This is one of my biggest leaks showing down too many second best hands. My PT stats are 41% to the showdown and 47% win at show down. That is high right? My parodox is in SSHE it says don't fold a hand that might be the winner for only one bet. I think I maybe take that to an extreme. Anyway would you show this down against two passive players? Also you can't check the turn right.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.25. MP posts a blind of $0.35.
UTG (poster) checks, MP (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP folds, SB calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, SB calls.

River: (8.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB calls, Hero ?

deception5 · #2 05-24-2005, 11:00 AM

You definitely can't check the turn, you need to charge the single card spade draws. On the river I would usually call here. You are closing the action and you could very well be at least splitting this pot.

Also UTG could be betting playing just the board to try and win a greater share. SB could easily be calling with the same idea. Since you have a better straight than is on the board I think calling is ok.

Wetdog · #3 05-24-2005, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My parodox is in SSHE it says don't fold a hand that might be the winner for only one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea is to not fold in large pots to one bet. This is a kind of middle sized pot. Against two opponents, I think you are probably going to be picked off by any spade more than 2/3 of the time. And betting the turn would be pretty standard, even in the face of the 3-flush.

SteveM · #4 05-24-2005, 11:17 AM

I curse and call - paying off the likely flush. With a straight on the board, he might be trying scare one or two of you off the pot he thinks he'd otherwise be splitting. He could also be bluffing the flush. Still not a good feeling to call, though.

tor · #5 05-24-2005, 11:19 AM

*posting blind*

I think the turn bet is fine.

There's 45 cards left unseen, 9 of them are spades, and 4 chances for your opponents to hold a spade. If I did my math right, that means you'll be beaten by a flush or straight flush (the only hand you're worried about) 80% of the time.

Since you're getting 10.2:1 on the call, it looks profitable.

wyoak · #6 05-24-2005, 11:22 AM

fold. you're probably hoping for AT BEST a split pot, which would be around 6bb. I seriously doubt you're good 1/5 times here. HU you could call, if SB folded you could call.

then again I've been noticing myself playing weaktight lately....

PokerCat69 · #7 05-24-2005, 11:24 AM

The situation sucks, a split pot is likely when they don't have a flush and your beat when they do.
I think calling 1 bet is ok HU, fold VS 2 or more.

medaugh · #8 05-24-2005, 11:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you're probably hoping for AT BEST a split pot,

[/ QUOTE ]

This confuses me? Not in this particular hand with the flush draw though. In SSHE it says when you fold you forfit your claim to your share of the pot. I understand what your saying and not disputing it but I get into this situation alot. even with position on the bettor, not just out of position. Any insight on how to handle split pot possibalities would help me greatly. any links? books?

Grail · #9 05-24-2005, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My parodox is in SSHE it says don't fold a hand that might be the winner for only one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea is to not fold in large pots to one bet. This is a kind of middle sized pot. Against two opponents, I think you are probably going to be picked off by any spade more than 2/3 of the time. And betting the turn would be pretty standard, even in the face of the 3-flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't have to be good 1/3 of the time to make this call. He needs to win 1 out 10, or split 1 out of 5.

I think he wins this hand more than 10% of the time, but not much more.

Agree with everyone else. You MUST best that turn.

One of my biggest leaks was showing down to many hands. My WTSD used to be about 38%, and my W$SD was at 46%. Over my last 10k hands or so I've gotten my WTSD down to about 30%, and my W$SD is up to about 56%. My BB/100 has gone from -1.8 to +4.5. It's not all because of that move, but it has been a significant factor.

Remember it's calling down 1 bet in a big pot with with a 'decent' chance of winning, not calling down 2+ bets with slim chances.

-G