Party Poker Quarter Million Qualifier BUSTOUT HAND...how do i play?

[jcchou]

Blinds are 400/800, it's 8-handed.
UTG raises all-in to 1685. UTG+1 folds.
UTG+2 re-raises to 2570 (14965 chips at the start of the hand).
Everyone folds to me. I'm on the button with JJ and 9600 chips. What do I do?

[CardSharpCook]

um, call

[jcchou]

here is how i played it. please provide your constructive criticisms.

i didn't feel UTG+2 had that great of a hand for this reason: i didn't put him on aces and i feel that with a hand like KK or QQ you wouldn't want to make it cheap for an Ax hand to get in and flop an ace. thus, i decided to go all-in (thinking he simply wanted to take the UTG's chips with only a modest hand).

turns out original all-in guy (UTG) had 65s.
re-raiser (UTG+2) had KK.

flop came 8d, 3d, Th.

if i had just called pre-flop, i think the flop would've broken me anyway. if he checked, i would've bet strongly. if he bet, i probably would've re-raised with an overpair, thinking mine was good enough.

turn came 6c, river came 6h.

UTG tripled up and UTG+2 took the rest of my
chips. in retrospect, i feel the only way i wasn't going broke with that hand was if i folded originally.

thoughts? thanks in advance!

[jcchou]

can anyone else help with this please?

[schwza]

i call preflop and go broke with an overpair.

[Scooterdoo]

I think you answered your own question. Given the texture of the flop and turn, it would have been hard for you NOT to go broke no matter what you did preflop. I don't see you folding preflop so the main choices were to push (as you did) or to just call and see the flop and how much your opponent liked his hand.

In the old days I would have pushed too, but JJ is a real problem hand for me and I've busted out of too many tournaments with it so I like to play it very, very carefully. If the preflop raise was bigger or if I had less chips I would probably fold it. Given that the preflop raise was not that significant I would have called the bet, but probably would have been in trouble with the flop -- or maybe not. Lately I'm very comfortable folding JJ. I hope I remember to continue to fold it during the WSOP because I just hate that hand!

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope I remember to continue to fold it during the WSOP

[/ QUOTE ]

brag post said what?

[Rogala]

This is a VERY tough hand. You are going to lose at least half your stack no matter what if you tangle with the chip leader here considering that flop.

If you call, you WILL go broke to the overpair 7 times out of 10 depending on how he bets it after the flop.

Based on my own experience in exactly the type of situation you describe, I would have called and hoped to flop a set.

If I miss the set, I bet this hand VERY cautiously, and I probably fold it eventually to a big bet by the chip leader. I know this sounds VERY weak, but I have lost about 10 big tournamnets, both live and online, to overpairs in this exact situation with TT, JJ, and QQ.

TT and JJ in PARTICULAR have killed me late in big tourneys, so I play them weakly into an all-in and a re-raise in those situations.

I adopted this philosophy after a lot of tough losses, and reading both Pat Harrington's and TJ Cloutier's books on tournamnet poker (more conservative approach with these types of hands).

Like I said, it reads weak, but I have finished top 3 in a LOT more events since playing it this way....and that is where the money always is.

Here is a larger point: I now do not tangle with people who have me outchipped with that kind of hand (JJ, TT, etc). It is just TOO dangerous. JJ is a VERY tough hand to lay down in that situation, but your own story points out the danger of getting involved with it. The only way you really know you are golden is if you flop a set.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
i call preflop and go broke with an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why overcall preflop?

[schwza]

do you prefer a fold or a push?