Please Study Maslow Before you Decide to "Go Pro"

[Snoogins47]

[ QUOTE ]
Well you named several activities, which do you plan to spend more time doing than in your "job"?

Why not get a job making music since it sounds like you like that?

Did you flunk out of music and have to turn to poker as a desperate second choice to make money? I know for many pros poker was not their first choice, so you won't be alone. This fails to convince me, however, that pro poker are the "winners" they say they are, though: A real winner would make the big bucks via their music, and not have to give up so much of his or her time to poker. Right?

Starting to see what I'm getting at?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, and everybody who loves gardening should clearly be able to plant tomatoes in the [censored] dirt and make enough money at it to provide the type of life they wish for themselves and the ones they love, right? Maybe since I think I wish to devote much of my life to my children, I should look into a career in loving them?

I'm not going to defend the practicality and mental-health aspects of deciding to become a professional poker player. But as both a full-time poker player, and extremely avid musician, this is laughable.

[Maddog121]

Be careful about "knowing you are right". It can blind you to contrary evidence. A wise man once said, "Only a fool thinks he's wise". You do seem to pigeonhole an entire class of people. One item you have mentioned is that one's job takes up the majority of one's time. Quite a few of the pro's work much fewer hours at poker to sustain themselves than they would have to at a regular job.
This is not all of them, of course, but one individual I know about works 100 days playing poker for a year of living. This leaves quite a large amount of free time for "self actualization". During the free time, who knows what deeds are done. As far as the idea of preying on and destroying the weak, I personally enjoy playing stronger players ( a situation that occurs much too frequently due to my meager skill set). When they take my money, its an entertainment expense.
Now, its a given that there are those individuals with a lack of self-control (I don't buy into the victim culture), or have a greater predisposition to gambling beyond their means, but the onus is on these individuals to take action and gain control over their own lives. There is no trick in contacting Gambler's Anonymous, and they make a point of proselytizing quite a bit.
One item I will accept is that the majority of individual's who want to go pro are probably making the wrong choice. This does not, however, warrant an indictment of the entire pro poker player population.

[IShark]

[ QUOTE ]
Be careful about "knowing you are right". It can blind you to contrary evidence. A wise man once said, "Only a fool thinks he's wise".

[/ QUOTE ]

I also know that 2+2=4. Do I need to be careful about that belief too?



[ QUOTE ]
You do seem to pigeonhole an entire class of people. One item you have mentioned is that one's job takes up the majority of one's time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong, I said that it hopefully takes up more time than any other activity they will engage in. Hopefully people aren't working 84+ hour weeks too often though. If this isn't true then I maintain they need that they need to find a job that is more fulfilling.

[ QUOTE ]
Quite a few of the pro's work much fewer hours at poker to sustain themselves than they would have to at a regular job.
This is not all of them, of course, but one individual I know about works 100 days playing poker for a year of living. This leaves quite a large amount of free time for "self actualization". During the free time, who knows what deeds are done.

[/ QUOTE ]

Golf and drinking are big ones aren't they?


[ QUOTE ]
As far as the idea of preying on and destroying the weak, I personally enjoy playing stronger players

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, you appear to have some class. A rarity amongst pros. Especially the ones in this forum.


[ QUOTE ]
Now, its a given that there are those individuals with a lack of self-control (I don't buy into the victim culture), or have a greater predisposition to gambling beyond their means, but the onus is on these individuals to take action and gain control over their own lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

They might not even know they are addicted until it's too late. If a weak 80 year old woman wanted to step in the ring with Lennox Lewis and was willing to up $2 million because she was crazy and thought she could win what would you think if Lewis accepted the challenge? What if Lewis didn't even bother to point out to her that she was crazy and needed serious help (onus is on her right?). Now, of course, Lewis is a class act, so it would never happen, but unfortunately pro poker players are not so we can easily imagine the equivalent happening in poker.


[ QUOTE ]
This does not, however, warrant an indictment of the entire pro poker player population.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does one go poking through a stinking mound of [censored] on the road in the hopes of finding a diamond inside (it is logically possible that it could be there) or does one say "look at that stinking mound of [censored]: stay away from it!"

[bkholdem]

Your pot of gold is where YOU find it.

[IShark]

Oh, one final note: Certain illnesses by their very nature make it less likely for those who suffer from them to seek the treatment they need. A trivial example of this would be a social phobia: since the patient is scared of people in general he/she will, of course, be scared to see a doctor for treatment.

Gambling addiction certainly falls into the category of not being immediately obvious to those suffering from it. Although the addict will ultimately have to seek treatment on his or her own, encouragement from others is helpful.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, one final note: Certain illnesses by their very nature make it less likely for those who suffer from them to seek the treatment they need. A trivial example of this would be a social phobia: since the patient is scared of people in general he/she will, of course, be scared to see a doctor for treatment.

Gambling addiction certainly falls into the category of not being immediately obvious to those suffering from it. Although the addict will ultimately have to seek treatment on his or her own, encouragement from others is helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where does being judgemental fall?

[Peter Harris]

[ QUOTE ]
Because one certain constant...
Is always human nature.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, since Hayano (1982)'s days of cultural anthropology, even human nature has been shown to be culturally contingent; see Descola and Pálsson (1992), the work of Bruno Latour (especially 1993) and of course, the works of all the Postmodernists (Clifford + Marcus (ed) 1986 is amongst the best).

The poster assumes one can gain no self-esteem or reach self-actualization from poker. That is not a universal assumption.

The poster assumes that one lives to work rather than works to live. Again, not a universal assumption.

The research methods used are suspicious at best. This comes from a Social Anthropology student whose discipline is constantly slated about research methods.

So, all in all, I think Hayano's work, plus Dr. Al's excellent articles on Cardplayer.com show much better reasoning and MUCH better research behind the value and threats of professional poker.

Regards,
Pete Harris

[RedManPlus]

[ QUOTE ]

Actually, since Hayano (1982)'s days of cultural anthropology, even human nature has been shown to be culturally contingent
Regards,
Pete Harris

[/ QUOTE ]

Anthropology is at best...
An inexact and subjective scientific discipline...
With, no doubt, constant, vigorous disagreement over conclusions reached.

To say that...
"Human nature has been shown to be culturally contingent..."
Misses the point entirely.

"Human nature" is precisely that part of the human condition...
That is immune to cultural conditioning...
And is the same no matter where you go on this earth.

For example...
A mother's love for her children...
Is not a byproduct of cultural conditioning...
Cannot be destroyed by cultural conditioning...
And while perhaps not 100% universal...
Is a constant in human nature.

There are many similar examples.

Regards,

rm+

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[steamboatin]

Poker faces was a little hard to find. I read everything you guys say I should read but I wasn't spending $80+ for a used copy. Luckily the Louisville Free Public Library has a copy.

I am about half way through. To many big words and not enough pictures.