New to MTT's... should I have called?

[Zurvan]

I'm pretty new to MTT's, I did 3 a few months ago and finished early. I just finished HoH (a gift) and wanted to try it out again.

Reads: Villain2 is new to the table, so none yet.
Villain1 has been around for a while, likes to push in questionable spots - went from a fair size stack, to what you see here.

It's still fairly early in the tourney, I have about 2x average stack, so I'm happy with my position.

The question is, should I have called this? Or was the fold correct. If I get some responses, I'll post the results, but I'd like opinions first. This has been bugging me since the hand happened.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP1 (t2765)
MP2 (t3965)
MP3 (t3425)
CO (t6180)
<font color="#C00000">Button :#A500AF(Villain1)/ (t1080)</font>
SB (t2530)
Hero (t2980)
<font color="#C00000">UTG :#A500AF(Villain2)/ (t515)</font>
UTG+1 (t880)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG :#A500AF(Villain2)/ calls t100, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls t100, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button :#A500AF(Villain1)/ raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t200, UTG :#A500AF(Villain2)/ calls [t415] t100, MP3 folds, Button :#A500AF(Villain1)/ calls [t780] t300, Hero folds.

[IHateKeithSmart]

Not sure I'm reading this right (HH seems a little garbled). Button raises to 300 w/ 2 limpers, you call, and then UTG pushes for 215 more?

I would probably fold pf. I give some consideration to UTG setting up a limp r/r given his stack. Plus, one of the other limpers can repop. I am a reforming weak-tighty though.

[RiverDood]

Feels like a pretty easy fold.

You want to play 77 either heads up with position, hoping the pair holds up through the flop --- or cheap against 5+ players for set value.

By the time it's to you, the hand is shaping up as something likely to be in the ugly middle. The best you can hope for is a bunch of smooth callers at T300 apiece, so you can see the flop from there, with lots of company. But that's not likely. The last thing you want is to be headed toward an expensive three-way or four-way flop where almost every overcard will be potential trouble for you.

Get out for free, rather than be squeezed in the middle of what's smelling like aggressive betting by people with better hands.

[McMelchior]

It's very cryptic what's actually going on. Post clarification, please.

That said, to call pf with a medium/low pair you must be sure to have the possibility of being paid the right odds should you be lucky and hit your set. Odds against hitting a set are 7.5:1, so you must be able - on the average - to extract at least 7.5 x 200 (the cost of the call) = 1,500. Probably more, since a set doesn't always win ... flushes, str8s and higher sets happen.

And you must be sure the price of the call doesn't go up - that is nobody can re-pop it after you. You don't have that certainty here - on the contrary, UTG started out investing a formidable 20% of his stack in the pot, and his most likely action (if he is a sentient being) is to move in, raising the price of your call from 200 to a minimum of 415. Notice that UTG's eventual all-in is big enough to re-open the betting, and thereby making it possible for the button to move in over the top.

Calling the raise pf is a big mistake.

If - what is not clear from your post - the button flat call the 215 re-rse - folding here is an even bigger mistake, since you're now getting the odds you need.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[Zurvan]

Sorry guys... didn't realize how hard that was to read

UTG limps (100), MP limps, Button raises to 300, I call, UTG pushes (+415), MP folds, Button all in (+700). That's when I folded.

I was sure folding was right (and you all seem to agree)... but then I see the results.

UTG 66, Button AQo.

Flop K 7 7

I guess I've been focusing on the results, not the decision.
Still sucks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[whiskeytown]

don't focus on results - a lot of money can be lost with a little pair vs. a bigger pair - probably a good laydown.

RB

[Lloyd]

This is an easy fold and not just after the limp-push and re-raise. I would have folded this the first time around. If I was closing the action I'd call with a middle pair but not when there are a couple of people left to act, a shortstack who limped, and another limper. I wouldn't be able to call another raise so why bother throwing any chips out there to begin with.