20-40 Hand at Hollywood Park

[Six_of_One]

Playing 20/40 at Hollywood Park on Saturday night...great game, loose and not too aggressive.

I recently got moved from the must-move to the main game, so I don't have much of a read on my opponent in this hand (BB)...I do know that he plays a lot of hands, and the hand prior to this he raised blind UTG.

I have J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in middle position. UTG raises, it folds to me, I 3-bet. It folds around to BB, who calls 2 cold, and the original raiser calls.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to me, I bet, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to me, I bet, BB raises, UTG folds. I call.

River: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks. What's my play?????

[BoneCollector]

This is a clear bet.

With no read on the BB, he could have a wide range of hands if he's loose and has total disregard for the straddle. On the other hand, most decent players will just call preflop in this situtation with any pair from qq down to 77 if the game is loose. It's tough to say that what he really has with no read, but it is entirely possible he is trying to put a move on you if he thinks you only have 2 overcards. Because of this I would 3 bet the turn. Since he checked the river I would bet and expect to take the pot, possibly uncontested.

[tessarji]

I don't feel that this bet is automatic. You very likely have the BB beat - but there is a small chance he has a FH or an 8 and is planning a C/R on the river as well. Since you called a turn C/R, I believe the BB knows that you have a PP, and will not pay you off with a bluff catcher like AK. He will likely pay you off if he has a medium pair.

If you feel he is a 'tricky' type player, you should check. His hand is generally two big cards or a FH. You are unlikely to get a call from big cards, and the chance of C/R is higher than usual.

If you feel he is a straightforward sort, you should bet. You are likely to win one more bet from a little pair. Also bet if he is a 'caller' who is convinced that every river bet is an attempted bluff.

If you have no read whatsoever, I would lean slightly towards a check, because the value bet decision is so close and this allows you to see his hand.

[YoureToast]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a clear bet.


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I don't agree. Not knowing anything about the BB, I think you check behind here. BB was not on a draw given how uncoordinated that board is, he coldcalled 2 bets from BB suggesting a good hand unless hes an idiot, and he checkraised the turn....While he could have something like A8s, I doubt it since he would have bet out or checkraised theflop...its more likely he has a pair above or below the JJ or was bluffing on the turn....If he has a pair above the JJ, he probably will checkraise; if he has a pair below the JJ, he will call; if he was bluffing the turn, he will fold. I think its more likely he was bluffing the turn and won't call the bet or he has an overpair to the JJ, in either case, betting is wrong.

[onegymrat]

Hi Six,

This is anything but a clear bet. As I've been creeping up to the middle limit games here and there, I've noticed the turn check-raise as a frequent move on a pf raiser/reraiser to move him off the hand. He's in the perfect position to do so for UTG was sandwiched.

He's either got any pair and is making a move to get you both off your hands, or he's flopped a monster like 44 or 66 or even 22. He has correctly moved UTG off his hand, probably two big cards, and only has to contend with you now. The main question is, say BB is going to check-raise you again, are you able to fold confidently? If not, then check it through.

[koa]

I'd say this is a check call he could of flopped a set and was waiting for the turn to raise. Also if you have the better hand and he checks it down your not really missing a bet as his raise pretty much bet it for you.

[Jeffage]

I would bet the end and fold to a second checkraise. When he checkraises the turn, you have to fear a big hand but can't lay down. But when he checks the river, it seems like he has some kinda pair and put you on overs..but after you called the turn, he's dogging it on the river. He could have 99, 77, etc. Or even a six. I'd bet and see what it collects. No one is saying you have to pay off anoter checkraise.

Jeff

[koa]

oops I messed up your position thought you were first to act with him. Hmm its a tough call, would he raise you without atleast top pair and would he wait to the turn to raise with an overpair lowering than Jacks? But because he raised you on the turn I don't think your missing a bet and because top board paired up its not a bad check as if he is pulling a move hes not going to call a bet

[Six_of_One]

When the BB checked to me, I went ahead and bet the river. Naturally, he check-raised again. I called, which I'm almost sure was a mistake. I think that my choices should have been either check behind, or bet and fold to a raise, with bet and call a raise (my actual choice) being the worst possible option.

Anyway, he turned over 35o for the turned straight. Did I mention the game was good?

[YoureToast]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, he turned over 35o for the turned straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my theory that there was no way he was on a draw was shortsighted....I hope you cleaned him out after this.