Slowplaying a Set - Page 2

soah · #11 05-16-2005, 04:47 AM

There's no reason to slowplay this flop. You will get action if someone has a strong ace. Otherwise you won't. You might as well begin building the pot on the flop and hope someone will tag along. Waiting to checkraise the turn lets people get away from their pairs very easily. If you just lead at the pot they will not have any clear opportunity to make a laydowwn. Slowplaying here accomplishes nothing for you and defines your hand very well once you pull the trigger on the turn.

bort411 · #12 05-16-2005, 04:50 AM

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A3 and A8 are extremely rare. He's much more likely to have AK, AQ or AJ.

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Please explain this statement. You do realize that there are as many 3's and 8's in the deck as K's and Q's? And with 6 people limping to the flop, I'd put money that none of these players are throwing a weak ace away preflop without being raised. Also, given that there was no preflop raise, isn't it MORE likely that these people are holding a weak ace instead of a strong one?

soah · #13 05-16-2005, 04:54 AM

There are four times as many kings left in the deck as there are eights.

bort411 · #14 05-16-2005, 04:55 AM

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What are your reasons for leading/check-raising the flop?

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My reason is not giving someone the opportunity to bust me by hitting their 4 outer for only $2.

Soah, good to see you validating my sanity. You and TWP seem to be the only posters worth reading these days.

bort411 · #15 05-16-2005, 04:58 AM

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There are four times as many kings left in the deck as there are eights.

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You are correct. From his statement, I took it to mean that for some reason people were inclined to fold those hands preflop. He didn't list A2, A4, and A6; it seemed like he was implying these players were too good to play these hands.

Verdi · #16 05-16-2005, 04:58 AM

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A3 and A8 are extremely rare. He's much more likely to have AK, AQ or AJ.

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Please explain this statement. You do realize that there are as many 3's and 8's in the deck as K's and Q's? And with 6 people limping to the flop, I'd put money that none of these players are throwing a weak ace away preflop without being raised. Also, given that there was no preflop raise, isn't it MORE likely that these people are holding a weak ace instead of a strong one?

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Do you see ghosts under your bed too? He could have A7, A6, A2, A9 etc too... I still say that 888AA is good and a firm favourite.

bort411 · #17 05-16-2005, 05:16 AM

You're missing my point. I'm not debating that he's significantly ahead in the hand; I'm debating the logic of letting an opponent catch a strong hand cheaply when you could be charging him, then committing all of your chips and hoping you're best without even considering what anyone else is holding. Flopping a set isn't a license to win the hand no matter what.

With this board, even holding AA, I still feel it is a mistake to give 4 players 11:1 to see the turn.

Verdi · #18 05-16-2005, 05:45 AM

Yes, I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. By betting that flop you will get an A to tag along and that will also make the pot bigger and juicier for the turn and river making it harder for the villain to fold. Ideally you can represent AQ (or weaker ace) to an AK.

TheWorstPlayer · #19 05-16-2005, 06:03 AM

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Yes, I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. By betting that flop you will get an A to tag along and that will also make the pot bigger and juicier for the turn and river making it harder for the villain to fold. Ideally you can represent AQ (or weaker ace) to an AK.

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I think you really have the wrong types of hands in mind for the villains in this hand. This is an unraised pot. You aren't going to be seeing a lot of AK/AQ type hands. You are going to see way more A9s/A7s, etc. People will not bet these hands strongly, but they will not let them go easily either. So you should be betting. Check/raising puts less money in the pot and makes it easier for people to fold their weak holdings. Just bet and hope for loose calls. That is why these people are bad, it is because they make loose calls post flop. Not because they get overaggro, which is what you want when you are trying to trap by c/raising.

CaptainNurple · #20 05-16-2005, 06:30 AM

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The flop was A83 rainbow. I couldn't ask for a flop with fewer draws to beat me. I don't want Ax to fold, because he is drawing dead. I was willing to take the chance for someone to catch a runner-runner or gutshot rather than risk having everyone drop on the flop. I have a tight image and a bet would have everyone putting me on the ace, good kicker.

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1. A K83 rainbow would have significantly fewer draws to beat you. Do you see why?

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My thoughts exactly. Any time there's an ace on the board there will be a straight possible by the river. I would much prefer to lead on this flop than to slow play it. I think slowplaying tends to only be a good idea when you've got a monster and the only chance you have of getting action is to allow your opponents to improve. Sure it may be a longshot that one of your opponents will actually be drawing to the straight, but if they are you surely want to make them pay for it.

By betting into this flop you're able to (hopefully) ELIMINATE those longshot draws and isolate a second-best hand to pay you off. You want to be getting action from someone with an ace here, not someone with a draw. If everyone folds, it's a bummer to not make a lot with your set but it probably means no one had an ace and thus could have been drawing to beat you.