JJ again

Ivanapolis · #1 05-15-2005, 04:40 PM

Crazy play with JJ?:
CO is LAP with 83,05% VPIP out of 59 games and he raises/reraises or caps every Axo. In the last few games he raised almost every time. So I tried to check-reraise preflop with my jacks.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

What do you think about the flop-call with two overcards on the board and what about turn-check-raise (to push out MP2)?

Escape · #2 05-15-2005, 04:47 PM

Raise preflop.

Fold the flop this hand?

handsome · #3 05-15-2005, 05:13 PM

HORRIBLE. RAISE preflop. Then you won't post moronic hands like this. Good luck in your endeavors.

Kumubou · #4 05-15-2005, 05:16 PM

Your pre-flop action made me throw up in my mouth. Then I read your read... and I still do not like it. Unless there were 3-4 players who were like that, or an absolute maniac (PFR >50%), this is a bad play.

Rough flop, and your limp pre-flop makes this hand that much harder to play. That is another reason this needs to be raised up pre-flop. As it stands now, I check with the intent of raising a LP bet (folding to a 3-bet) and calling or folding to an EP bet depending on how many overcalls come. Having this get checked through is not the worst thing in the world (in this instance), as you are either already behind or there is not much anyone can catch to catch up (the only draw that might have gone away is a gutshot like KT or T8). There are also some reverse implied odds to take into consideration, since that if you do catch a J for the set it would complete some draws and make a lot more dangerous on the river. At least you have J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

The way the turn and river play out is nothing short of confusing. Why wait until the turn to checkraise to protect? Why then check the river on a brick? If you thought you were no good on the turn (as is likely), then just fold.

-K

Ivanapolis · #5 05-15-2005, 06:30 PM

<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
The way the turn and river play out is nothing short of confusing. Why wait until the turn to checkraise to protect? Why then check the river on a brick? If you thought you were no good on the turn (as is likely), then just fold.

-K

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wait until the turn to checkraise to protect?

1. Course I had to see, how many MPs will call the flop-bet from the CO. If it was seen from 2 or more, I would have given up.
2. Many players will call the flop check-raise with a weak ace, a Q or a gutshot, but not an check-raise on the turn.

Why then check the river on a brick?
A combinition of many thoughts: 1. Inside a bluff, 2. he can have a Q, which he wouldn't bet 3. He can have JT or 98.
But right, a value bet on the river is a good idea, unfortunately I was too fearful.
The check-r on the turn had the only reason to bust out the one remaining MP.

Prof. Chaos · #6 05-15-2005, 06:58 PM

why are you not raising preflop?

TomBrooks · #7 05-16-2005, 09:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think about the flop-call with two overcards on the board and what about turn-check-raise (to push out MP2)?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think your throwing away money 75% of the time or more, particularly since you didn't raise preflop. I think you can fold a lot of Qx, Kx, and Ax hands preflop that will limp but won't call two. I wouldn't count on that LAG getting as many people out as you want because his raises are probably not being respected. If you raise and he reraises to isolate you, OK, go heads up with him.

Nyack · #8 05-16-2005, 10:43 AM

Raise preflop, JJ is too good a hand to risk letting everyone see the flop for one bet.

I'm check/folding the flop. Your hand is poor and you are nearly always beat by at least one person here.

I don't like the turn check/raise unless CO is very aggressive post-flop. The pot is small, your hand pretty much sucks and there's no guarantee MP2 folds.