Cheating is somewhere here at 30/60 or i'm just paranoid?

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 seems like definite collusion, hand 2 looks ok to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

They both had A high on a double paired board on hand 1.

I see this more as them being aggressive morans not giving Peter credit for a pair.

[4thstreetpete]

Both hands look legit to me. I've seen some donkeys do worse than that as hand 1 nobody puts you on a 5 or 7 and people trying to raise you out of the hand. Just the nature of 30/60.
You played hand #2 pretty weak in my opinion. When more than 1 player call 3 bets preflop and if they hit any piece of the flop, it's very hard to to knock them out of the hand. The flop aggression would be a huge tell for me that these guys are on their draws or trying to protect their hand. I would most definately cap the flop and bet out on the turn if it came to me first and call down.

[esspo]

If there is collusion it was in hand 1. Absent solid information on both players, I don't see how you are going to do anything but fold in that spot.

Hand 2 is too tight. When I first started playing the 15, I made that laydown a few times and it seemed like I was wrong everytime I did it, so I don't do it anymore.

[Peter_rus]

I guess i'd never played these hands this way at other limits. Though at 30/60 where so little players pay a lot when they're behind i find myself overthinking situations too much.

After all i agree - that here a little probability of collusion, though 3-betting with flush draw on turn, when it's obvious i have cool pair and 3-betting on flop with straight draw with non-nun flush draw when it's obvious - someone has better flush draw is stupid surprised me too much.

I disagree that colluders mustn't show their hands on river. It's too obvious. It's better for them to look like 2 stupid fools to extract more money in future. Figuring they know im try to read hands they can play many hands this way to extract more profit.

Main conclusion: im paranoid and pay too many credits to my opponents even for 30/60. Though im running not bad at 30/60 at all so ill keep trying.

Thank for answers guys.

[Duke]

Neither hand looked suspicious at all. Hand #1 was typical donk play, and hand #2 wasn't even played strongly enough to get you to dump.

I think you're too tight and are getting run over.

~D

[fearme]

i dont think so

[imashyboi]

The problem is that MP2 capped the flop meaning either he already has a made flush or an Ad and a pair. The problem that he limped preflop which means he could have anything, from a flush or a small pair. If he has a flush your crushed, set of 4's you have a draw(2 outer to help you).

Is this the kind of flop people will normally play it real strong with a pair and a draw to a Ad? Just by looking at the flop we can determine that someone is drawing big and is probably playing it real aggressive. Maybe I'm giving MP2 too much credit because he capped it. I normally fold in this situation unless I saw him doing the same play to a draw with a small pair.

Good respond Barron. The better play would be to call and see the river, if you are crushed with a set or a made flush I guess you'll have to just pay for it since the pot is so huge anyways. Its only rarely that someone makes a flush on the flop.