Just one of those days - Page 2

itsmesteve · #11 05-12-2005, 04:38 PM

how often do you see it though? hero has shown aggression throughout the hand. it would have to be over 50% of the time hero bets. he won't always be three bet by an 8, but will be by a ten. i think that makes it about 60% and don't know that its that frequent.

edit- i'm referring to a naked Ace or 99 calling.

Buckmulligan · #12 05-12-2005, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What is going to call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you get more calls from weaker hands on the river with the ten falling than without it. That ten validates a call from a lot of Ax hands and even Kx hands.

tiltaholic · #13 05-12-2005, 04:40 PM

you must raise that flop.
and in the complete absence of reads i check behind on the river.
reads are important here. who was villian?

moot · #14 05-12-2005, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
betting this river is terrible advice

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY?

If he had an 8 he likely would have reraised the turn (though not always).

If he had a T he likely would have bet the river. I find that players almost NEVER go for a check-raise here. They're too afraid that you'll check behind because your trip 8s (technically a boat) don't look so good anymore.

You should bet this. Players see 2 pair on the board and they will often call with an A or K kicker (sometimes evev worse). This is a perfect time to value bet.

itsmesteve · #15 05-12-2005, 04:42 PM

a flush draw would be all but getting the correct odds anyway, and then would have the odds to continue on the turn. the flop is not the time for the raise, the turn would be.

johnc · #16 05-12-2005, 04:44 PM

I'd actually call the turn bet and go for the overcall (same #BB profit as your raise & call). MP1 had something weak and just might have called. Also, IMHO your turn raise slowed down UTG+1 costing you 1 or two river bets. I believe this to be a case where aggression potentially cost you BBs.

This post is in reference to the "originally" posted hand.

zCereal · #17 05-12-2005, 04:45 PM

you call THAT a bad beat?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, UTG caps, UTG+2 calls $4.50 (All-In), Hero calls.

River: (18.62 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.62 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Kd Td (full house, tens full of fives).
UTG+2 has Kh 5c (four of a kind, fives).
Hero has Tc 9c (full house, tens full of fives).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 16.87 BB. Hero wins 1.87 BB. UTG wins 1.87 BB.

car ramrod · #18 05-12-2005, 04:45 PM

I would bet the river, my guess is he will call and he doesn't have a T

moot · #19 05-12-2005, 04:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
a flush draw would be all but getting the correct odds anyway, and then would have the odds to continue on the turn. the flop is not the time for the raise, the turn would be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather raise the flop. I don't think a turn raise protects against a flush, anyway. Someone bets the turn, you raise, a flush draw is still getting more than enough odds (the pot's going to be 3 handed, and their implied odds are sufficient).

itsmesteve · #20 05-12-2005, 04:51 PM

on the flop a flush is getting 7.5:2 if we raise, on the turn 5:2. i don't think the turn odds are sufficient for a flush. generally they're not going away anyway, so i'd rather make them play incorrectly.